What is your ideal integrated amplifier?

[restorer-john]

I am usually fine with 35-50 WPC from my Loxjie A30, but I am considering an upgrade to 300-500 WPC.

You won't know what's hit you when you take the jump to 500wpc. On a big pair of 12" 3 way or bigger speakers, home audio takes on a whole new dimension.

It's a bit like driving really fast in a big V8- like off the clock fast. You don't do it too often because it's dangerous, but boy, is it fun!

 

[Frank Dernie]

Devialet.

 

[Wes]

Devialet.

I don't want my amp to implode...

 

[curiouspeter]

The IN300 looks the same as the IN200 and has the same features but it's almost a 1.000€ more expensive than the IN200.

How much is an IN200 Signature? Can't find that online.

 

[jonnyt]

At what price do integrated amps top out on performance (or get 95% of the way there)?
I'm looking to add something to my Bartok to drive a pair of floorstanders (am thinking Focal/ Revel/ Magico).
I had budgeted around $10k for something like a Pass Labs INT-60 or Bryston B135 (something silver, simple looking and powerful enough to drive mid-sized speakers to average levels).
But after a few months on ASR, I'm wondering if the conventional wisdom is that something for $2k, $5k etc would perform just as well?

 

[curiouspeter]

At what price do integrated amps top out on performance (or get 95% of the way there)?
I'm looking to add something to my Bartok to drive a pair of floorstanders (am thinking Focal/ Revel/ Magico).
I had budgeted around $10k for something like a Pass Labs INT-60 or Bryston B135 (something silver, simple looking and powerful enough to drive mid-sized speakers to average levels).
But after a few months on ASR, I'm wondering if the conventional wisdom is that something for $2k, $5k etc would perform just as well?

For that kind of money you are also getting other things like industrial design, customer support, durability, workmanship, and other intangibles.

"Performance" is hard to judge beyond measurements, and one can say a Bartok is not much better than a Topping or an Apple dongle. In the end, an audio system is a luxury, and the most important thing is to make you happy.

If I had something from dCS I would get something that looks nice with it as well as the listening room.

 

[jonnyt]

For that kind of money you are also getting other things like industrial design, customer support, durability, workmanship, and other intangibles.

"Performance" is hard to judge beyond measurements, and one can say a Bartok is not much better than a Topping or an Apple dongle. In the end, an audio system is a luxury, and the most important thing is to make you happy.

If I had something from dCS I would get something that looks nice with it as well as the listening room.

Oh, I totally admit that appearance is important (for example I won't buy the Gryphon despite the great reviews because I hate how it looks and I won't buy a pair of JBL monitors despite their great measurements as they hae to look nice in my house) but if a nice looking $2k or $5k amp will give the exact same performance as a $10k amp when driving, for example, Magico A3s or Revel Salons then I'd have no problem buying it. Also if it were 5 or 10% better for double the price of a $5k model I would still consider it.

 

[Koeitje]

Ncore, HDMI input, dual subwoofer pre-outs, Dirac.

 

[curiouspeter]

Oh, I totally admit that appearance is important (for example I won't buy the Gryphon despite the great reviews because I hate how it looks and I won't buy a pair of JBL monitors despite their great measurements as they hae to look nice in my house) but if a nice looking $2k or $5k amp will give the exact same performance as a $10k amp when driving, for example, Magico A3s or Revel Salons then I'd have no problem buying it. Also if it were 5 or 10% better for double the price of a $5k model I would still consider it.

I doubt even a $10K amplifier can be more than 10% better than a $1000 one (objectively). However, emotional connection to a piece of equipment can be worth that much.

What about an Esoteric F-05?

The problem with the silver color is that different shades do not always look good together.

 

[jhaider]

You won't know what's hit you when you take the jump to 500wpc. On a big pair of 12" 3 way or bigger speakers, home audio takes on a whole new dimension.

It's a bit like driving really fast in a big V8- like off the clock fast. You don't do it too often because it's dangerous, but boy, is it fun!

From experience, I think a lot of that is frankly confirmation bias.

Also, if you truly want off the clock fast then ditch the bulky and smelly legacy algae corpse burner for a modern car!

My ideal integrated for background or desktop music (i.e. 2.1 channel) would be something like an ELAC EA101-EQ-G upgraded with AirPlay built in, or NAD M10/miniDSP SHD Power with Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) for subwoofer integration. (miniDSP doesn’t have; I don’t know re NAD but I suspect not as well.) Lyngdorf’s small unit also looks phenomenal. For serious listening, StormAudio used to make a 16-channel integrated with Auro, Atmos, etc. I do not see it on their website now though.

Basically if an integrated amp doesn’t automate subwoofer integration (ideally multiple subwoofers over an area - that’s where ELAC falls down as it’s one sub at one point in the room) then I consider it an antiquated lo-fi relic. Bass linearity is the biggest real world fidelity problem that can be addressed with electronics.

 

[curiouspeter]

Also, if you truly want off the clock fast then ditch the bulky and smelly legacy algae corpse burner for a modern car!

Yep. If you want a "quick" car it will have to be an EV.

Just like if you want an accurate watch it will have to be a smartphone.

My ideal integrated for background or desktop music (i.e. 2.1 channel) would be something like an ELAC EA101-EQ-G with AirPlay built in, or NAD M10/miniDSP SHD Power with DBLC. For serious listening, StormAudio used to make a 16-channel integrated with Auro, Atmos, etc. I do not see it on their website now though.

I will seriously consider the ELAC if I am to turn the office into a secondary listening area. It is even Roon Ready I believe.

For a bit more, the Lumin M1 looks quite nice. It is also Roon Ready and it even supports DSD.

 

[jhaider]

For a bit more, the Lumin M1 looks quite nice. It is also Roon Ready and it even supports DSD.

2.0 channel only, no room correction, expensive. Basically that feature set sounds fine for a 50 dollar extension background music product but pointless and stupid for more money.

 

[jonnyt]

I doubt even a $10K amplifier can be more than 10% better than a $1000 one (objectively). However, emotional connection to a piece of equipment can be worth that much.

What about an Esoteric F-05?

The problem with the silver color is that different shades do not always look good together.

That's my exact question, at what point, £1k, $2k, $5k etc does amp performance at normal wattage levels approach peak performance?

Good point on the silver, need to take account of that. I'll also try to check out the esoteric, I'm not familiar with it cheers.

 

[Helicopter]

NAD M33 is probabably about as good as anything for performance in an integrated, or something like Yamaha As 3200, but if you are talking about typical power, i.e., about 100WPC, and audible performance, I doubt either will sound different than something way cheaper like an AS700... maybe even something really inexpensive. You pretty much pay for functionality, build, design, and sometimes power. Other performamce measurements like a decent DAC are hit or miss.

 

[curiouspeter]

NAD M33 is probabably about as good as anything for performance in an integrated, or something like Yamaha As 3200, but if you are talking about typical power, i.e., about 100WPC, and audible performance, I doubt either will sound different than something way cheaper like an AS700... maybe even something really inexpensive. You pretty much pay for functionality, build, design, and sometimes power. Other performamce measurements like a decent DAC are hit or miss.

Last time I checked the M33 was still pending Roon certification, if that's important to you.

 

[jkasch]

If I were starting over, I'd probably buy a Parasound HINT 6. Plenty of power, onboard DAC, sub controls, MM/MC phono. Not inexpensive, but seems to have it all.

I've had the first version for a few years. It's been great, no regrets. I did add a Schiit Modius and prefer it to the internal DAC. (Preference could be psychological)

 

[Helicopter]

Last time I checked the M33 was still pending Roon certification, if that's important to you.

I had forgotten that, but no, not a feature I would use.

 

[jonnyt]

Roon is super important but not from the amp as I have a good streamer/ DAC and I'd like 100% of the money spent on the amp to be amplifying as opposed to streaming or doing D to A
If money were no object for simple integrated to do nothing but provide approx 100w into 4ohms, at what price do sq improvements roll off and any increased spend just becomes cosmetic?

 

[Th0805]

Roon is super important but not from the amp as I have a good streamer/ DAC and I'd like 100% of the money spent on the amp to be amplifying as opposed to streaming or doing D to A
If money were no object for simple integrated to do nothing but provide approx 100w into 4ohms, at what price do sq improvements roll off and any increased spend just becomes cosmetic?

But isn’t the main draw of an “integrated amp” that it combines all or most of your devices into one? If I’m shopping for an integrated as opposed to separates I want to try and get it all in there at that point

 

[Helicopter]

But isn’t the main draw of an “integrated amp” that it combines all or most of your devices into one? If I’m shopping for an integrated as opposed to separates I want to try and get it all in there at that point

Its is ideal if it gets you to one box, but as long as it replaces more than one box, it is doing what it is supposed to do by degree.