Review and Measurements of Schiit Jotunheim and iFi iDSD Black Label DACs and Headphone Amps

[amirm]

And this is balanced versus unbalanced performance and as a way of comparison, against Topping DX7s which also has both outputs:

As we see, distortion actually goes up in the case of Jotunheim in balanced config. So unless you really need more power, i.e. > 1 watt, it is not advisable to use it.

Notice the massively quieter and cleaner Topping DX7s which easily bests the iFi iDSD Black too. Alas, it runs out of power early (0.7 watts versus 2.4 watts with Jotunheim). If you don't need your earlobes resonating , the Topping provides a whopping 24 dB lower noise and distortion compared to Jotunheim.

Me? I like to go deaf early so I would likely opt for a compromise and go with iFi iDSD Black.

 

[amirm]

Close up pic here shows that it uses the DSD1793.

Thanks for the correction. Looks like it is the same architecture as PCM1793 but with DSD capability added.

 

[garbulky]

@amirm thanks for the post. you mentioned the HD600 sounded smeared with the unbalanced output. What does it sound like using the balanced output? Any thoughts?

The Jot still seems to be underperforming compared to specs. It's supposed to give 3 watts in balanced unless their defintion of clipping is perhaps at a higher THD like 1%.

 

[mindbomb]

It makes more sense to me that the noise would increase and the thd+n would get generally worse with balanced. I think the atomicbob measurements showing the opposite had to have been mislabeled.

 

[amirm]

@amirm thanks for the post. you mentioned the HD600 sounded smeared with the unbalanced output. What does it sound like using the balanced output? Any thoughts?

I don't have a balanced cable for it. Once more, I have bought the parts but no time to build it. Based on measurements, I don't expect it to sound better.

 

[amirm]

It makes more sense to me that the noise would increase and the thd+n would get generally worse with balanced.

Why? See: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better

 

[garbulky]

I don't have a balanced cable for it. Once more, I have bought the parts but no time to build it. Based on measurements, I don't expect it to sound better.

Understood. Well if you do get time, sometime, I'd be interested in hearing what you think. The reason I'm asking. You know that smearing sound you mentioned? I've heard it on several amps that didn't quite have what it took to amp the HD600. Some would get very loud. But they ended up sounding smeared at even modest volumes. My Emotiva A-100 with its dropping resistor engaged (makes the output 220 ohms) sounded pretty good but I could hear a smear. Changing to bypassing the resistor which puts it in direct connection with the power amplifier took out the smear. But with the downside of a higher noise floor that manifested in a mild hisss in quiet segments. Taking out the resistors also happened to lower the impedance.

 

[derp1n]

Understood. Well if you do get time, sometime, I'd be interested in hearing what you think. The reason I'm asking. You know that smearing sound you mentioned? I've heard it on several amps that didn't quite have what it took to amp the HD600. Some would get very loud. But they ended up sounding smeared at even modest volumes. My Emotiva A-100 with its dropping resistor engaged (makes the output 220 ohms) sounded pretty good but I could hear a smear. Changing to bypassing the resistor which puts it in direct connection with the power amplifier took out the smear. But with the downside of a higher noise floor that manifested in a mild hisss in quiet segments. Taking out the resistors also happened to lower the impedance.

It has nothing to do with the meme that headphones require some magic to drive beyond producing sufficient power to achieve the desired loudness. You've bought in to more audiophool BS here.

The reason your A-100 sounds like shit is because the headphone out is total garbage. 220 ohm OI is going to have a huge effect on the frequency response of most dynamic headphones. For ideal damping with that output you'd need to use 1800 ohm headphones... good luck finding those.

 

[amirm]

It makes more sense to me that the noise would increase and the thd+n would get generally worse with balanced.

Oh, I misread your post thinking you were saying the opposite. Sorry about that.

 

[garbulky]

It has nothing to do with the meme that headphones require some magic to drive beyond producing sufficient power to achieve the desired loudness. You've bought in to more audiophool BS here.

Sigh...sure why not.

The reason your A-100 sounds like shit is because the headphone out is total garbage. 220 ohm OI is going to have a huge effect on the frequency response of most dynamic headphones. For ideal damping with that output you'd need to use 1800 ohm headphones... good luck finding those.

With the resistor bypassed the output impedance drops.

 

[derp1n]

Sigh...sure why not.
With the resistor bypassed the output impedance drops.

There is no facepalm big enough for your posts.

 

[amirm]

There is no facepalm big enough for your posts.

Let's be nice to our fellow members please.

 

[derp1n]

Let's be nice to our fellow members please.

I have a zero tolerance policy for sea lioning trolls.

 

[Wombat]

The repeated why, why, why from some is tedious in measurement posts. Can I suggest an initial web foray on the question/s for those regularly seeking a top-down education on the details.? Give Amir a break.

 

[bunkbail]

The reason your A-100 sounds like shit is because the headphone out is total garbage. 220 ohm OI is going to have a huge effect on the frequency response of most dynamic headphones. For ideal damping with that output you'd need to use 1800 ohm headphones... good luck finding those.

Sorry for being offtopic, but why does headphones like the HD600 and HD650 (both 300 ohms impedance) sounds great on OTL tube amps like the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball, even though the crack has a massive output impedance of 120 ohms? It is nowhere near the 1/8 rule for ideal damping though?

 

[Alcophone]

If I'm not mistaken the DAC on it is also balanced.

The AK4490 DAC module is proper balanced, the multibit DAC module is what Schiit calls "cheap-ass balanced", i.e. single ended + phase splitter.

 

[Alcophone]

As I explained, "balanced" headphone output's only job is to provide more power. Please don't confuse it with balanced line out. There is no relationship between the two despite the misleading label. "Balanced" here simply means the ground is not shared between the two channels feeding your headphones. It is a marketing pitch to make people think this type of connection to headphones is "balanced" when the headphones themselves are not ground reference anyway.

It's still differential, i.e. two inverse signals per channel, with the same noise rejection benefits.

 

[restorer-john]

Why? See: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better

View attachment 13891

Your usage of the virtual highlighting pen is about as good as my shaky hand...

I have to drop it into word and use the highlighter in that- it keeps it all in line.

 

[Wombat]

Sorry for being offtopic, but why does headphones like the HD600 and HD650 (both 300 ohms impedance) sounds great on OTL tube amps like the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball, even though the crack has a massive output impedance of 120 ohms? It is nowhere near the 1/8 rule for ideal damping though?

Possibly the result just suits you.

 

[IdiotCustomer]

Hi guys. I only made an account today but I've been lurking here for quite a while. I was stupid enough it seems to have bought this amp last autumn. A few weeks ago I started noticing the Humm you mention in this review. For me it only occurs when switching inputs from the connected dac to say rca where nothing is connected and touching the volume knob. Shouldn't the issue persist on all inputs regardless if anything is connected or not? Should I be worried for this to be a safety hazzard? I'd really hate to have to send it back and it's something they can't even fix. I live in Sweden so I ordered it from their Europe affiliates but if I have to send it back to has to go all the way to California. Aka it will be gone for months. Good God I feel stupid, usually I always research things I buy to death.
Edit: it seems to go away or at least not be audible when connecting my record player through the rca in..hmmm. If I really concentrate I think I can hear it vaguely with the headphones on with dac input at high gain with the volume at max with nothing playing.