A Visit to Mike Lavigne's Home and Sound Galleries Media Server

[Blumlein 88]

I didn't hear it of course. I have noticed in others, in myself something like a bias or placebo effect with your own system. You do things to improve it, and while you can backup, change directions etc. you often pursue various small artefacts. You can't help, but be influenced by your effort, time and thought to believe you have made real strides in improving things. Yet have you? The gear audiophiles have will always cause a civilian to walk in off the street and go WOW just visually. Even more so when a whole room or house or barn has been setup for this sole purpose. But do they leave thinking, "man I can't believe what I heard, it was so good" or perhaps "well it wasn't really so great considering all that was involved and the money spent" or even "maybe its better, but it sounds odd to me on music". I have had or witnessed all these reactions at different times.

I remember when I had Acoustats in a long wall short room situation they were a one person in the one chair setup only. If you didn't get the one chair everyone was wondering why I thought this weird mono things sounded good.

Now I have had experiences where I listened and even some visually wow gear stayed on my mind only for how great it sounded.

I also remember of all the speakers I have had, QUAD ESL63s seemed the most consistent at impressing people simply with the sound being natural and easy to enjoy. They seemed to draw people in and let them be impressed by the sound more than other gear I have owned.

So Ray I don't know if you need an intervention or not? There are plenty of audiophiles who do. (man I hope I am not one at the moment though I think I have been in the past )

 

[fas42]

I also remember of all the speakers I have had, QUAD ESL63s seemed the most consistent at impressing people simply with the sound being natural and easy to enjoy. They seemed to draw people in and let them be impressed by the sound more than other gear I have owned.

Gosh, why is getting this to happen like drawing blood from a stone - pretty simple goal, unbelievably "difficult", and controversial to do ...

 

[Blumlein 88]

Gosh, why is getting this to happen like drawing blood from a stone - pretty simple goal, unbelievably "difficult", and controversial to do ...

All we need are instructions that don't involve Frank magic to follow.

 

[RayDunzl]

I have had or witnessed all these reactions at different times.

The most memorable comment I've received:

"I don't listen to music intellectually."

From a nice lady in documentation from Someplace, Louisiana during a work-day hamburger lunch get-together at my house in The Woodlands.

 

[Cosmik]

I remember when I had Acoustats in a long wall short room situation they were a one person in the one chair setup only. If you didn't get the one chair everyone was wondering why I thought this weird mono things sounded good.

I am forced to wonder: why not just sit a couple of feet away from some smaller speakers? If the room is such a problem, and the listening position so critical, you could get the same sound and (lack of) lifestyle convenience for a tenth of the size, price and power.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I am forced to wonder: why not just sit a couple of feet away from some smaller speakers? If the room is such a problem, and the listening position so critical, you could get the same sound and (lack of) lifestyle convenience for a tenth of the size, price and power.

I think you are onto something. I wasn't as smart then. A close monitor speaker setup would have been maybe as good, maybe not as good as the space you get from Acoustats. My situation with the Acoustats was temporary. In time they ended up firing down the length of a rather long room.

 

[RayDunzl]

I don't know if you need an intervention or not

I vote "no".

His estimate system cost is around $500,000.

(I should just put some sort of emoji here, but I don't use them)

What's he planning to do next?

 

[Deleted member 65]

I used to own Evolution Acoustics speakers and have heard various models of the EA speakers in different rooms and setups. I love Jonathan Tinn and I really think they look great. However, they aren't the best performers. I also agree that huge speakers are distracting and totally unnecessary. Sometimes I wonder whether the really large speakers perform worse off axis due to their size. IOW, they can't get out of their own way. The only EA speaker I really liked in my system was the little micro one.
View attachment 5244

I've got this one (MMMicroOne), in storage now. Will setup once I've finished build of the Roon Bridge on a budget (see other dormant thread) and finished new listening room. Was a bit disappointed on the speakers, let's see in new room with new gear how it turns out.

 

[RayDunzl]

Lead in a copper pipe?

 

[dallasjustice]

I've got this one (MMMicroOne), in storage now. Will setup once I've finished build of the Roon Bridge on a budget (see other dormant thread) and finished new listening room. Was a bit disappointed on the speakers, let's see in new room with new gear how it turns out.

I'd love to hear what you think of them. I felt they had more bass than one would think possible, especially when I used a DSP target curve. Of course, that reduce the speakers' dynamic range a bit. But it was worth it when I had them. I think they are a good value for what they are. I wouldn't say they are the best two ways I've heard. But they are great for the price.

 

[dallasjustice]

I know there's a thread here about audio philosophy. I think that's a really important question.

The best philosophy in this hobby is to be open to new ideas as long as those ideas aren't too ridiculous. In this hobby, there tends to be only two extremes. There's the extreme subjectivists and the extreme measurement folks. The best question is which one of them gets the most joy out of their systems. I've gone from one extreme to the other. Looking back on it, I can say with some certainty that the objectivist in me has more fun and is much more relaxed. The problem with the extreme subjectivists is that they lack a consistent standard which is outside of themselves.

Ever since the Kahneman and Tversky experiments 30 years ago, modern science has proven beyond all doubt that the human mind will consistently err in very predictable ways. The errors we humans make come from our evolution. Those modes of erroneous thinking helped mankind survive and advance. However, those erroneous thought patterns are often deleterious to modern living. There's no way around it. Those who show the most confidence in their subjective listening abilities are the ones who make the biggest errors. This is why the extreme subjectivists are constantly changing out their gear. It's the never ending Carousel for these poor souls.

Of course, there's folly with measurements as well. It's easy to see how a measurement can make someone feel better or worse which can affect their perception of music quality. This isn't science either. However, the folks who own a microphone and use the microphone have one advantage over the folks who do not. The advantage is that there are some things which can be easily measured. That measurement takes place outside of the human mind. If one knows how to interpret the measurement according to accepted standards many other folks have found useful, then there's never a reason to have someone come over to your room in the hopes you'll get another pat on the back; "your system is the best I've ever heard" "it sounds better than live music" . . . To the objectivist, those types of compliments don't matter and are really distracting. The big reward for the objectivist is much simpler. The objectivist can just sit down and enjoy music or a movie with their friends and family and just be in the moment.

 

[Cosmik]

I know there's a thread here about audio philosophy. I think that's a really important question.

The best philosophy in this hobby is to be open to new ideas as long as those ideas aren't too ridiculous. In this hobby, there tends to be only two extremes. There's the extreme subjectivists and the extreme measurement folks. The best question is which one of them get the most joy out of their systems. I've gone from one extreme to the other. Looking back on it, I can say with some certainty that the objectivist in me has more fun and is much more relaxed. The problem with the extreme subjectivists is that they lack a consistent standard which is outside of themselves.

Ever since the Kahneman and Tversky experiments 30 years ago, modern science has proven beyond all doubt that the human mind will consistently err in very predictable ways. The errors we humans make comes from our evolution. Those modes of erroneous thinking helped mankind survive and advance. However, those erroneous thought patterns are often deleterious to modern living. There's no way around it. Those who show the most confidence in their subjective listening abilities are the ones who make the biggest errors. This is why the extreme subjectivists are constantly changing out their gear. It's the never ending Carousel for these poor souls.

Of course, there's folly with measurements as well. It's easy to see how a measurement can make someone feel better or worse which can affect their perception of music quality. This isn't science either. However, the folks who own a microphone and use the microphone have one advantage over the folks who do not. The advantage is that there are some things which can be easily measured. That measurement takes place outside of the human mind. If one knows how to interpret the measurement according to accepted standards many other folks have found useful, then there's never a reason to have someone come over to your room in the hopes you'll get another pat on the back; "your system is the best I've ever heard" "it sounds better than live music" . . . To the objectivist, those types of compliments don't matter and are really distracting. The big reward for the objectivist is much simpler. The objectivist can just sit down and enjoy music or a movie with their friends and family and just be in the moment.

Surely the happiest audiophile of all would be the one who could just buy a system (active DSP), plug it in, adjust a single control to their taste, and that's it. Excellent sound without microphones, measurements, or tweaks beyond the simplest setting of a rotary switch or similar. I believe we are at that position, but very, very few people have the enthusiasm for buying something high performance (very expensive for a 'civilian') and yet so simple. I would recommend this route to anyone, and that rather than worrying over the imaginary deficiencies in the sound, they indulge their creative urges in how they set up their music library servers, software etc.

 

[Deleted member 65]

I'd love to hear what you think of them. I felt they had more bass than one would think possible, especially when I used a DSP target curve. Of course, that reduce the speakers' dynamic range a bit. But it was worth it when I had them. I think they are a good value for what they are. I wouldn't say they are the best two ways I've heard. But they are great for the price.

Been in storage now for close to three years. Drove them initially with Hypex nCore monoblocks (sounded awful). Switched amp to hybrid integrated, sounded better, close to okey. Decided to store them away and buy new speakers, which I did. Bought them from darTZeel Switzerland, not so cheap with all duties & shipping.

I'll give them a second chance in second music room partnering with new gear to be decided.

 

[Thomas savage]

Surely the happiest audiophile of all would be the one who could just buy a system (active DSP), plug it in, adjust a single control to their taste, and that's it. Excellent sound without microphones, measurements, or tweaks beyond the simplest setting of a rotary switch or similar. I believe we are at that position, but very, very few people have the enthusiasm for buying something high performance (very expensive for a 'civilian') and yet so simple. I would recommend this route to anyone, and that rather than worrying over the imaginary deficiencies in the sound, they indulge their creative urges in how they set up their music library servers, software etc.

No, your ignoring the main motivation of audiophiles .. System building, it's a creative outlet akin to a kind of artistic expression.

Under The guise of increasing fidelity but that's not really what's going on within the self, more creative thought and freedom to implement ones imagination. It's a haven from the restrictions and realities of middle age depending on your taste in women it might be cheaper to have a affair

Personally I like your idea Cosmik..

 

[Thomas savage]

I know there's a thread here about audio philosophy. I think that's a really important question.

The best philosophy in this hobby is to be open to new ideas as long as those ideas aren't too ridiculous. In this hobby, there tends to be only two extremes. There's the extreme subjectivists and the extreme measurement folks. The best question is which one of them gets the most joy out of their systems. I've gone from one extreme to the other. Looking back on it, I can say with some certainty that the objectivist in me has more fun and is much more relaxed. The problem with the extreme subjectivists is that they lack a consistent standard which is outside of themselves.

Ever since the Kahneman and Tversky experiments 30 years ago, modern science has proven beyond all doubt that the human mind will consistently err in very predictable ways. The errors we humans make come from our evolution. Those modes of erroneous thinking helped mankind survive and advance. However, those erroneous thought patterns are often deleterious to modern living. There's no way around it. Those who show the most confidence in their subjective listening abilities are the ones who make the biggest errors. This is why the extreme subjectivists are constantly changing out their gear. It's the never ending Carousel for these poor souls.

Of course, there's folly with measurements as well. It's easy to see how a measurement can make someone feel better or worse which can affect their perception of music quality. This isn't science either. However, the folks who own a microphone and use the microphone have one advantage over the folks who do not. The advantage is that there are some things which can be easily measured. That measurement takes place outside of the human mind. If one knows how to interpret the measurement according to accepted standards many other folks have found useful, then there's never a reason to have someone come over to your room in the hopes you'll get another pat on the back; "your system is the best I've ever heard" "it sounds better than live music" . . . To the objectivist, those types of compliments don't matter and are really distracting. The big reward for the objectivist is much simpler. The objectivist can just sit down and enjoy music or a movie with their friends and family and just be in the moment.

Let's face it there's some impressive signs of disfunction in both sets of 'audiophiles' whether they like to be seen as objectivist or subjectivist ( imo a ridiculous binary designation that bares all the hallmarks of what's wrong with humans) . Iv not met many in my virtual socialising travels that seem totally nut free

A advantage iv found with the more evidence based guys is they seem less emotionally invested in their hifi ' choices' and Genuinely want better music rather than to protect a personal sentiment. after all being wrong just gives one a opportunity to improve our situation and remove a hitherto unattainable level of understanding, is that not what life's about? Partly at least...

 

[Cosmik]

Let's face it there's some impressive signs of disfunction in both sets of 'audiophiles' whether they like to be seen as objectivist or subjectivist ( imo a ridiculous binary designation that bares all the hallmarks of what's wrong with humans) . Iv not met many in my virtual socialising travels that seem totally nut free

A advantage iv found with the more evidence based guys is they seem less emotionally invested in their hifi ' choices' and Genuinely want better music rather than to protect a personal sentiment. after all being wrong just gives one a opportunity to improve our situation and remove a hitherto unattainable level of understanding, is that not what life's about? Partly at least...

This is why I like classical music people. They care about sound quality, and know that large systems sound better than small ones - in my mind's eye they listen to big 1970s or 80s teak veneered speakers - KEF maybe. Refreshingly, they hold CD up as the ultimate sound quality, being blissfully ignorant of high res/DSD/MQA and all that audiophile nonsense. When CD arrived, they never doubted that it was superior to vinyl, and they still don't. Since 1983, or whenever it was, they have concentrated purely on the music.

Having said that, one of the examples I was going to give was BBC Radio 3's CD Review programme, but they've just changed the name to Record Review! I do hope this is not some ill-judged reversion to vinyl (maybe they'll get one of those USB record decks in the studio), but an acknowledgement that people download and stream digital CD-quality music these days...

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

This is why I like classical music people. They care about sound quality, and know that large systems sound better than small ones - in my mind's eye they listen to big 1970s or 80s teak veneered speakers - KEF maybe. Refreshingly, they hold CD up as the ultimate sound quality, being blissfully ignorant of high res/DSD/MQA and all that audiophile nonsense. When CD arrived, they never doubted that it was superior to vinyl, and they still don't. Since 1983, or whenever it was, they have concentrated purely on the music.

Having said that, one of the examples I was going to give was BBC Radio 3's CD Review programme, but they've just changed the name to Record Review! I do hope this is not some ill-judged reversion to vinyl (maybe they'll get one of those USB record decks in the studio), but an acknowledgement that people download and stream digital CD-quality music these days...

Just to update your stereotype. I hang around with a number of classical music listeners, most of whom also frequently attend live concerts, like me. In my circle, hi rez via PC server strongly predominates, mostly in Mch, mostly with DSP room EQ, which we all swear by fairly unanimously. No teak, no Kefs, no pre-millennium speakers or golden oldie electronics here. Just vinyl and CDs gathering dust in addition to great sound from great modern hi rez, Mch recordings, mostly from the last decade or so, the best ever sonically. We think we live in a golden age of audio. Never better.

 

[watchnerd]

Will setup once I've finished build of the Roon Bridge on a budget (see other dormant thread)

Link? I built my Roon Bridge for <$100.

 

[Deleted member 65]

Link? I built my Roon Bridge for <$100.

Here you go - - > http://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...n-bridge-server-build-on-a-budget-thread.722/

The budget builds intention is to reuse unused parts I have on the shelf eg motherboard, cpu, memory, ssd, lps, wireless pcie card aso. Case being only new investment. Project on hold right now due to other priorities, will startup soon again.

 

[watchnerd]

Here you go - - > http://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...n-bridge-server-build-on-a-budget-thread.722/

The budget builds intention is to reuse unused parts I have on the shelf eg motherboard, cpu, memory, ssd, lps, wireless pcie card aso. Case being only new investment. Project on hold right now due to other priorities, will startup soon again.

Oh I just built it using a Raspberry Pi. Much smaller, about the size of 2 decks of playing cards.