An anxious audiophile

[MattHooper]

I am an anxious audiophile. I am always wondering about how I can improve my system or if I have made good choices with the kit I have already purchased. Although I do enjoy that aspect of the hobby, all the tinkering.

My current system

Server - Roon on a intel NUC i5 – music files predominantly FLAC served up via ethernet (and qobuz subscription)
Streamer – Raspberry pi 4 running ropieee, stock psu
DAC – Topping D90, stock psu – USB input. Sharp filter. XLR out (Mogami 2534 with neutric connector cable).
Amplifier – Musical Fidelity M6si, balanced input. Belden 5T00UP Speaker Cable 10AWG
Speakers – Kef Reference 1.
Room correction – www.homeaudiofidelity.com – filters loaded into Roon.

So, any thoughts on how to improve the system?

Well the Kef speakers are known for some midrange glare, which could be the source of your dissatisfaction. If you don't hear it, just listen more closely until you can hear the problem. I suggest starting with the best Shunyata AC cable you can afford to lower the noise floor and reduce the midrange glare. Then, if you are still dissatisfied it's probably because you need to move up the Shunyata AC cable line, buying as you can afford it. (Borrow money if you need to get those better cables - midrange glare is a worse blight than temporary poverty).

Then we can start working on the rest of your cabling.

But that's only the beginning of course. I bet your power supply for your Raspberry pi is choking the performance of your system too. Maybe buy a tube DAC. Replace your lifeless Kef speakers with horns. Etc. It's a journey, not a destination.

..........





(Sorry, from one audiophile to another, I had to; you've received plenty of excellent replies! )

 

[antcollinet]

Well the Kef speakers are known for some midrange glare, which could be the source of your dissatisfaction. If you don't hear it, just listen more closely until you can hear the problem. I suggest starting with the best Shunyata AC cable you can afford to lower the noise floor and reduce the midrange glare. Then, if you are still dissatisfied it's probably because you need to move up the Shunyata AC cable line, buying as you can afford it. (Borrow money if you need to get those better cables - midrange glare is a worst blight than temporary poverty).

Then we can start working on the rest of your cabling.

But that's only the beginning of course. I bet your power supply for your Raspberry pi is choking the performance of your system too. Maybe buy a tube DAC. Replace your lifeless Kef speakers with horns. Etc. It's a journey, not a destination.

..........





(Sorry, from one audiophile to another, I had to; you've received plenty of excellent replies! )

Just to be 100% clear for the OP because even with the disclaimer at the bottom Poe's law could apply....


I think this was a joke.

 

[tonapo]

Just to be 100% clear for the OP because even with the disclaimer at the bottom Poe's law could apply....


I think this was a joke.

Yes, thanks, I was reading it through with a wry smile.

 

[tonapo]

Maybe give a bit more details? There are quite a few people here with experience that could help, and a second opinion would never hurt.

Just read your last reply.... Don't chat with REL... Their subs are overpriced and their subwoofer philosophy is that of the HEA, i-e complete nonsense. SVS, Rythmik, HSU, Monoprice make better, much less expensive subwoofers.. Chat with people here not with REL ... A good place to start: @sweetchaos Subwoofer Comparison

And you need to learn to measure. Rather inexpensive. A software (free) REW. $100 microphone, miniDSP Umik-1 and you are good to go... well prepared, to be good to go, you need to learn REW, learn how to measure. From there you will learn to integrate the subwoofers to your mains... Depending on how much you know or already knew this may take months... It took me almost 2 years... You must be prepared to research, toil, iterate, ask questions and be discouraged but you must forge ahead.. Stay on ASR, ask questions. People here know, a lot more than on most audio sites. Prepare yourself to have your questions answered by luminaries, by honest amateurs with the knowledge of practiced professionals, by award-winning professionals and by enthusiasts, who know what the real deal is...

Thanks again for the replies, it is much appreciated.

I do have a Umik-1 mic and have played around with REW (following guides normally) but, as said, I am currently using customer filters from Home Audio Fidelity (HAF). Basically, I measured the room, I send the measurements to HAF and then they generate and send back the filters. You can load into Roon or HQ Player. I will dig them out, I think I have a shot of before and after.

On the sub front, my chat with REL basically ended with, there is no obvious place in the room for a sub/subs, and, I would need to spend quite a bit to find a sub to match/equal my KEFs. I will also dig out the room plan. Its a room in the middle of my house, which is an unsual shape, is a throughfare (you have to walk through-it to get to the kitchen), and it has my desk in one corner where I work most days.

On the room treatment front, I might be able to make some changes, but it has to get past my better half, and the room needs to remain funtional. I have a photo or two I will put up.

 

[tonapo]

OK, here is the room. Apologies for the quality, as you can tell, I did it myself!

 

[tonapo]

And here is a picture to give you a better idea.

 

[tonapo]

And finally, here are the filters from HAF, on the left the room measurements and then the filters on the right.

 

[tuga]

That looks like way too much bass. Are you lifting that range?

 

[flipflop]

And finally, here are the filters from HAF, on the left the room measurements and then the filters on the right.
View attachment 213595

Those filters are barely doing anything and the target curve (or whatever the solid red line is supposed to be) is trying too hard to compensate for the lack of a sub.

 

[voodooless]

Why don’t we do a fun experiment: @tonapo shares his REW data files, and the forum can create some Roon friendly EQ that tonapo can try out.

Indeed there is some extra bass, which is probably quite a strain on the KEF’s. A sub would help that already. There are also quite a few room modes, a sub would also help in fixing those with a bit of DSP.

 

[tonapo]

That looks like way too much bass. Are you lifting that range?

Nothing apart from loading into Roon.

Those filters are barely doing anything and the target curve (or whatever the solid red line is supposed to be) is trying too hard to compensate for the lack of a sub.

OK, I am not sure I know sufficient to say otherwise.

Why don’t we do a fun experiment: @tonapo shares his REW data files, and the forum can create some Roon friendly EQ that tonapo can try out.

Indeed there is some extra bass, which is probably quite a strain on the KEF’s. A sub would help that already. There are also quite a few room modes, a sub would also help in fixing those with a bit of DSP.

What would you need for this? I followed this guide previously - https://community.roonlabs.com/t/a-guide-how-to-do-room-correction-and-use-it-in-roon/23800

 

[Tom C]

That looks like way too much bass. Are you lifting that range?

Is there such a thing as too much bass?

 

[tuga]

Is there such a thing as too much bass?

Just as there is too little...

 

[Talisman]

Forgive me if I tell you that I hate this kind of talk, if you have come to this site and have read enough then you will know that most dacs from 100 euros and up sound technically transparent to any ear, if your amplifier is decent and has enough power will do just fine, the speakers are the flagship model of a brand that practically according to the measurements does not miss a beat.
But what do you want people to tell you, but most of us wonder if an 80 euro aiyima A07 is good for driving elac debut b6. 2 from 320 euros.
I understand that a good part of audiophile "fun" is the spasmodic and insatiable pursuit of the best, but sometimes I wonder if you also enjoy just enjoying the music you like.
Excuse me if I was not very nice.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Cursory analysis of the curves... A lot of lift in the bass for the Kef. They may accept it but , I am not sure they are giving you their best.

Please do not take any of the following of this as condescension. You may need to wean yourself from those audiophiles magazines and fora, if you are on these... At least for a moment. There is an objective, scientific reality to accurate reproduction at home, even when preferences are factored in, the objective reality remains.. At ASR that is our reference.
The notion of not finding a sub to match your Kef is wrong.. There are several, and, some are not even expensive, in any case less expensive than REL and will surpass REL in most metrics that matters at a fraction of the price. Matching subwoofers with mains, any mains require works and while achieved by many , is not easy. It requires the audiophiles to learn and to work... a lot... Just looking at the photographs, you could flank each Kef with a sub. If you are in the USA, I would suggest SVS, since they give you a 30 days trial... or you could go with some models from Kef. From what I read Arendal is the real deal in Europe... So you have choices, lot. Your amplifier doesn't seem to have sub output, that can be an issue, solvable yes, but a bit complicated. I remain certain, that a pair of subs crossed at 80 Hz or bit higher higher if they're flanking, is your best move forward. Help is available here on the forum.

Peace

 

[flipflop]

I remain certain, that a pair of subs crossed at 80 Hz or bit higher higher if they're flanking, is your best move forward.

A single sub should be sufficient for a single listening position.

 

[DMill]

Hi

Cursory analysis of the curves... A lot of lift in the bass for the Kef. They may accept it but , I am not sure they are giving you their best.

Please do not take any of the following of this as condescension. You may need to wean yourself from those audiophiles magazines and fora, if you are on these... At least for a moment. There is an objective, scientific reality to accurate reproduction at home, even when preferences are factored in, the objective reality remains.. At ASR that is our reference.
The notion of not finding a sub to match your Kef is wrong.. There are several, and, some are not even expensive, in any case less expensive than REL and will surpass REL in most metrics that matters at a fraction of the price. Matching subwoofers with mains, any mains require works and while achieved by many , is not easy. It requires the audiophiles to learn and to work... a lot... Just looking at the photographs, you could flank each Kef with a sub. If you are in the USA, I would suggest SVS, since they give you a 30 days trial... or you could go with some models from Kef. From what I read Arendal is the real deal in Europe... So you have choices, lot. Your amplifier doesn't seem to have sub output, that can be an issue, solvable yes, but a bit complicated. I remain certain, that a pair of subs crossed at 80 Hz or bit higher higher if they're flanking, is your best move forward. Help is available here on the forum.

Peace

I’m also not a fan of REL subs. But I gotta give the REL salesman some credit for not pushing the issue and recommending a solution to just make a sale. Too many times have I been burned, before the internet, by sales guys on commission with gear. Whoever that person is REL should give him a promotion cause he/she realizes a long term customer is more important than a one time sale.

 

[FrantzM]

I’m also not a fan of REL subs. But I gotta give the REL salesman some credit for not pushing the issue and recommending a solution to just make a sale. Too many times have I been burned, before the internet, by sales guys on commission with gear. Whoever that person is REL should give him a promotion cause he/she realizes a long term customer is more important than a one time sale.

Fair enough.. REL produces a line of overpriced subwoofers cottoning to the HEA crowd. I would advise the OP to NOT to become a customer unless , he finds them at dime on the dollar.

 

[tonapo]

Forgive me if I tell you that I hate this kind of talk, if you have come to this site and have read enough then you will know that most dacs from 100 euros and up sound technically transparent to any ear, if your amplifier is decent and has enough power will do just fine, the speakers are the flagship model of a brand that practically according to the measurements does not miss a beat.
But what do you want people to tell you, but most of us wonder if an 80 euro aiyima A07 is good for driving elac debut b6. 2 from 320 euros.
I understand that a good part of audiophile "fun" is the spasmodic and insatiable pursuit of the best, but sometimes I wonder if you also enjoy just enjoying the music you like.
Excuse me if I was not very nice.

No problem. And I do listen to alot of music, pretty much all day everyday - which is great! I think the main point of posting was to 'check-in' with the community to get tips and suggestions about my set-up.

Cursory analysis of the curves... A lot of lift in the bass for the Kef. They may accept it but , I am not sure they are giving you their best.

Please do not take any of the following of this as condescension. You may need to wean yourself from those audiophiles magazines and fora, if you are on these... At least for a moment. There is an objective, scientific reality to accurate reproduction at home, even when preferences are factored in, the objective reality remains.. At ASR that is our reference.
The notion of not finding a sub to match your Kef is wrong.. There are several, and, some are not even expensive, in any case less expensive than REL and will surpass REL in most metrics that matters at a fraction of the price. Matching subwoofers with mains, any mains require works and while achieved by many , is not easy. It requires the audiophiles to learn and to work... a lot... Just looking at the photographs, you could flank each Kef with a sub. If you are in the USA, I would suggest SVS, since they give you a 30 days trial... or you could go with some models from Kef. From what I read Arendal is the real deal in Europe... So you have choices, lot. Your amplifier doesn't seem to have sub output, that can be an issue, solvable yes, but a bit complicated. I remain certain, that a pair of subs crossed at 80 Hz or bit higher higher if they're flanking, is your best move forward. Help is available here on the forum.

I am in the UK, hence why I originally spoke to REL, as was thinking local at the time. I probably can't fit a pair of subs outside the speakers on both sides, the left, maybe, the right, there would not be room behind my chair. Maybe on the inside of the speakers.

Also, on the amp, it does have a pre-out which the manual says can be used for a subwoofer.

And thanks for the suggestions I will go and have a look now.

A single sub should be sufficient for a single listening position.

Any thoughts on placement? There is not alot of room, but a few possible locations.

’m also not a fan of REL subs. But I gotta give the REL salesman some credit for not pushing the issue and recommending a solution to just make a sale. Too many times have I been burned, before the internet, by sales guys on commission with gear. Whoever that person is REL should give him a promotion cause he/she realizes a long term customer is more important than a one time sale.

We had a discourse of email, so good of them to give advice which ultimately did not lead to a sale.

 

[DMill]

Fair enough.. REL produces a line of overpriced subwoofers cottoning to the HEA crowd. I would advise the OP to NOT to become a customer unless , he finds them at dime on the dollar.

Like you I chose SVS. And the sb1000 and 3000micro both have a very small footprint which made made them a very easy sell in my home where WAF matters.