Anybody PREFER listening to music on bookshelves or tower speakers only (without the subwoofer)?

[srrxr71]

I think that is indeed what happens to many who claim to easily hear quite low crossover points.

Possibly some resonance they don’t catch also. Most likely what you said.

 

[Robin L]

Probably you have a low crossover point? Perhaps 60Hz?

Take that to 80Hz and run a sine wave sweep and you will discover that 80hz can be localized.

Also I believe (someone correct me if i’m wrong) that by placing one speaker on the sub that speaker and that sub are time and phase aligned to each other.

If your other speaker is equidistant then all 3 are working in synergy.

The potential downside is that the position for best imaging of your speakers and the position for most accurate bass are usually different in your room. Then again some response humps in the bass range are actually quite pleasant.

Yes, the crossover point is 60hz, as far as I can tell. The sub is also located in a space where I do not hear the speaker cone directly.

 

[srrxr71]

Yes, the crossover point is 60hz, as far as I can tell. The sub is also located in a space where I do not hear the speaker cone directly.

Yes I would do that specifically for the sub closest to me.

Also right now I have issues at 100Hz which preclude me from crossing over lower than 100Hz hopefully next weekend I’ll have my ceiling panels up and I can play with the crossover.

 

[Vacceo]

Or maybe because the upright bass is on the left side, and the sub is on the right, and as the bass player walks down the scale, you can hear the deeper notes "bend" toward the subwoofer. So, upper notes coming from the left, with the deeper notes from the right. When that happens, it almost sounds like the bass is leaning diagnally across the entire sound stage to me. It's very clear when you hear it, and definitly not a visual thing at all, at least not in my case.

EDIT: I listen to a lot of jazz, and the above example is very common.

The experiment I'd try is adding a second subwoofer on the other side and listen.

 

[anotherhobby]

Also right now I have issues at 100Hz which preclude me from crossing over lower than 100Hz hopefully next weekend I’ll have my ceiling panels up and I can play with the crossover.

Have you done a focused comparison between the crossover points, trying hard to ignore the fact that you've seen your measurement that shows a suck out at 100 Hz? I ask because I prefer the overall sound of an 80 Hz crossover vs using 100 Hz to help with the null. If you look at my graph I posted a couple of pages back, I also have a nasty suck out at 100 Hz. I was able to "fix it" with the subs by using a higher crossover, and in turn had a "nicer" looking measurement, but I don't like the actual blend between the subs and speakers nearly as much as 80 Hz.

 

[anotherhobby]

The experiment I'd try is adding a second subwoofer on the other side and listen.

I have actually done that! I did tested it when I was testing crossover points after I upgraded to dual subs. I have one on each side next to my mains. I found that I could always reproduce the effect or make it go away at will by only turning on the sub that is on, or not on, the same side as the bass player. You can also clearly feel the driver moving in time with the bass string plucks if you put your hand on the sub. Unfortunately my findings are irrelevant to anybody except me since they weren't double blind.

 

[DMill]

Totally. I learned the same recently.

SVS has a recommended crossover point for many speakers and their subs on their site. Typically their reco is aro

I think that is indeed what happens to many who claim to easily hear quite low crossover points.

i crossover ELAC carina bookshelves at 55Hz. And my sub is on the right wall due to space constraints. It is extremely difficult to localize with most music. In fact, I often have to touch it to make sure it’s on (I’m running wireless to sub). Perhaps with some extremely heavy bass mixed music at higher SPL I can localize it, but that may just be the floor thumping and I probably need to better decouple the subwoofer.

 

[srrxr71]

Have you done a focused comparison between the crossover points, trying hard to ignore the fact that you've seen your measurement that shows a suck out at 100 Hz? I ask because I prefer the overall sound of an 80 Hz crossover vs using 100 Hz to help with the null. If you look at my graph I posted a couple of pages back, I also have a nasty suck out at 100 Hz. I was able to "fix it" with the subs by using a higher crossover, and in turn had a "nicer" looking measurement, but I don't like the actual blend between the subs and speakers nearly as much as 80 Hz.

So i’m waiting on the ceiling panel installation. Right now the monitors are showing bad dips at 100Hz. It’s definitely the ceiling.

Once that’s done I will.

However I did preview a bit and I agree. Even if the numbers say otherwise. I know I need to drop my crossover frequency. Just waiting on those panels.

Edit: So I previewed again last night. Without a doubt setting the crossover to 75Hz tightened up my bass. It just took the right song to test it. I just left it there and ignored the graphs. Hopefully the graphs will clear up after the ceiling panel installation.

 

[srrxr71]

SVS has a recommended crossover point for many speakers and their subs on their site. Typically their reco is aro

i crossover ELAC carina bookshelves at 55Hz. And my sub is on the right wall due to space constraints. It is extremely difficult to localize with most music. In fact, I often have to touch it to make sure it’s on (I’m running wireless to sub). Perhaps with some extremely heavy bass mixed music at higher SPL I can localize it, but that may just be the floor thumping and I probably need to better decouple the subwoofer.

Is around?

 

[ryanosaur]

Is around?

Ed at SVS has routinely said 1/2 an octave over F3 of the Speaker.
I like higher, around 1 octave. Lower leaves too much power demand on the Woofers of any Speaker… a little higher and my experience is that the Mids and highs gain a subtle clarity, while a capable Sub(s (preferably multiple )) is delivering much cleaner bass.

 

[DMill]

Is around?

Very sorry. Got distracted by kids and dinner and messed up my post. ryanosaur pretty much said what I’m hearing and what I do. I will say there are very bass heavy recordings I will dial back the sub. Most times I think I’m right when I do this but I have to wonder if the intent wasn’t to have a nice bass thump. I’ve been listening to a ton of late 70s funk and bass guitar is driving the song.

 

[Chromatischism]

Take that to 80Hz and run a sine wave sweep and you will discover that 80hz can be localized.

To be clear: it's not 80 Hz that you're hearing. It's the content from bass managed channels between 80 and 240 Hz, and/or any vibrations giving away the location of the sub.

 

[pseudoid]

I'd really like to hear somebody, somewhere, who has a full range system where the subwoofers actually round out

You are much more eloquent than I.
I dislike them from a totally different perspective:
I couldn't give a flying franc about the lowest-octave in my home environment.

 

[levimax]

You are much more eloquent than I.
I dislike them from a totally different perspective:
I couldn't give a flying franc about the lowest-octave in my home environment.

Why?

 

[JSmith]

audio content below 40 Hz

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317098414_Long-term_Average_Spectrum_in_Popular_Music_and_its_Relation_to_the_Level_of_the_Percussion

Also some further interesting references within this paper.


JSmith

 

[pseudoid]

Why?

Even if I discount the WAF issues (ugly/loud?), subs just require too much futzing depending on content (genre/media type) ... I am content with F3@45Hz in a stereo config. within the confines of a 25'x25' "living room".
When we get the hankering for real/live music, we just go for a concert! If we want our seats rattled during a movie... well, we go to a theater.
I am not dillusioned enough to expect to reach the lowest octave ACCURATELY within the comforts of the house.

Besides, the missus tells me there is no reason to rattle the walls and p*ss off the pets and the neighbors alike!
Does it make sense?

 

[levimax]

Even if I discount the WAF issues (ugly/loud?), subs just require too much futzing depending on content (genre/media type) ... I am content with F3@45Hz in a stereo config. within the confines of a 25'x25' "living room".
When we get the hankering for real/live music, we just go for a concert! If we want our seats rattled during a movie... well, we go to a theater.
I am not dillusioned enough to expect to reach the lowest octave ACCURATELY within the comforts of the house.

Besides, the missus tells me there is no reason to rattle the walls and p*ss off the pets and the neighbors alike!
Does it make sense?

Makes perfect sense thanks.... for other's subs add more fun and are worth it. One size fits all not required.

 

[pseudoid]

Makes perfect sense thanks.... for other's subs add more fun and are worth it. One size fits all not required.

Maybe I should have also prefaced my earlier answer w/the fact that I lived in a 100'x100' loft above some 1940s Dallas factory building w/none of the restrictions above.
My loft was used as a "demo room" for a few of the high-end salons (for old-money clients) as long as I got to keep some of the audio equipment for longer term.
Those were the years when Deep Ellum and loft living were just becoming a thing in downtown, and we would rock that factory building to the core! I got the t-shirt!

 

[ryanosaur]

I’ve been listening to a ton of late 70s funk and bass guitar is driving the song.

Larry Graham with Sly!...
If You Want Me To Stay...
I Want To Take You Higher...

Absolutely one of the best! Stunningly sick Basslines that drive harder than just about anything else I've heard.
*high five

 

[dlaloum]

Yes - I do not find a need for subwoofer when using my Gallo Reference 3.2 "towers" - they go down to 24Hz on their own.