Anyone find it far more rewarding listening to real physical CDs on a CD player, rather than using FLACs? And why do you find this?

[Old Listener]

They can't find it.
The standard tagging system is targeted at pop music, ie "artist" and "album" whereas I am looking for "composer", "work" "version/performer".
No system I know works for that, certainly not the "noise generating" assistants I detest so much .
It often isn't even possible to find which symphony by which composer it may be in a list of "songs" labeled 5th symphony .
I have spent time tagging my own rips (I was an early adopter almost 20 years ago) at the beginning but in the end got exasperated about how bad it was and gave up in a fit of pique .
I have tried Songkong and may again, but it only takes 15 seconds or so to find the disc and put it on (OK longer for an LP) but since I pretty well always plan to listen to a whole symphony or whatever I don't do it that often.
I understand people who used to just listen to 1 or 2 tracks off each disc and listen to popular music (or anything suited to standard tagging) streaming and file based music is a no-brainer.
For me it is a frustrating, irritating blot on my spare time

I agree that the online tag databases aren't right for classical music (or other music where both composer and performer are equally important in locating music.

I spent a few months researching tools and methods before I started ripping my entire CD collection. I have a clear idea of how I wanted my Flac files tagged and how I wanted to select music to play. It was clear to me that I would need to input some or almost all the tag information myself.

Jriver software was by far the best fit for my needs. I could input tag information very efficiently and I could browse and select music using the tags I wanted to use.

I input tags before I started ripping a CD. That information was used to create file and folder names as well as being stored in the Flac files and the Jriver database. When I started, I spent about 3 minutes per CD on tag input. Later, I could do the job in 1 minute per CD.

The project took about 4 months to rip and tag my current collection. When I finished, I felt the satisfaction of having figured out what I wanted and accomplishing my goal. For me it was satisfying in the way others find woodworking projects or working on cars. The thought that I put in up front and the work ripping and tagging CDs weren't trivial but the result has been well worth it.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I agree that the online tag databases aren't right for classical music (or other music where both composer and performer are equally important in locating music.

I spent a few months researching tools and methods before I started ripping my entire CD collection. I have a clear idea of how I wanted my Flac files tagged and how I wanted to select music to play. It was clear to me that I would need to input some or almost all the tag information myself.

Jriver software was by far the best fit for my needs. I could input tag information very efficiently and I could browse and select music using the tags I wanted to use.

I input tags before I started ripping a CD. That information was used to create file and folder names as well as being stored in the Flac files and the Jriver database. When I started, I spent about 3 minutes per CD on tag input. Later, I could do the job in 1 minute per CD.

The project took about 4 months to rip and tag my current collection. When I finished, I felt the satisfaction of having figured out what I wanted and accomplishing my goal. For me it was satisfying in the way others find woodworking projects or working on cars. The thought that I put in up front and the work ripping and tagging CDs weren't trivial but the result has been well worth it.

Excellent work.
My problem was being an early adopter (almost 20 years ago) because I was on a plane every week and staying in hotels often and was looking for a file based solution rather than carrying a flight case full of CDs and a Discman (cassettes and walkman previously).
At the beginning it was MP3 only and the tagging system was not flexible in terms of editing, and I am lazy faced with 7000 CDs.
In the end I settled for just putting a work in a sensibly named playlist and that worked, and continues to work, fine.
When I retired I was no longer travelling, didn't need the portable and find sticking a CD in a player less of a PITA than firing up a player only to find there has been some sort of firmware update I have to wait for.
I am just too impatient, and if it comes to the inconvenience and untidiness of having loads of CDs I prefer that to the hatefullness of using some software driven player none of which I have tried and been happy with.
Amarra, Pure Vinyl and Pure music, Audirvana, iTunes, JRiver, BitPerfect, Sooloos, Roon others I tried but fell by the development wayside.
I do have a Qobuz subscription but it is expensive for the amount of use I give it - probably once or twice a week checking out a recording I may wish to buy on CD - so I may well let it expire.
I did, after @sergeauckland spoke highly of it 7 or 8 years ago, buy a SBT which is still sitting in its sealed box...

 

[Wombat]

I can scan the spines of my CDs and LPs faster than going through menus. Old memories as to buying the album are re-kindled.

I cannot imagine having thousands of albums buried in menus. I'm just an old Luddite who can't be bothered with depending on back-ups, cessation of software support, everchanging streaming formats and rates(digital), computer upgrades, computer savvy, licensing terminations, internet companies ceasing to exist AND needing a computer.

KISS

I guess its a bit like gold ingots and real estate vs Bitcoin. I see where the 'digit' is pointing in on-line digital access and it is not up mine.

G&T time. Lemon on the side, not on the bottom.

 

[Fluffy]

The immediacy of my carefully indexed local storage is much more appealing. Every song or album I want to listen to is a couple of clicks away, and I don't even need to get off the chair. I think music has been associated with physical media out of practical concerns in the past, and honestly there is no real reason for it to be a physical medium.

 

[Wombat]

For some of us old buggers, getting out of the chair counts as exercise.

You will suffer for your laziness, whippersnapper.

 

[MattHooper]

The immediacy of my carefully indexed local storage is much more appealing. Every song or album I want to listen to is a couple of clicks away, and I don't even need to get off the chair. I think music has been associated with physical media out of practical concerns in the past, and honestly there is no real reason for it to be a physical medium.

I was reading a book last night. There's "no reason" these days for it to be a physical medium, given I could be reading it on my phone, ipad or desktop screen.

Except that reading an actual book, holding it in my hand, just feels better, and more important, allows an opportunity to un-plug from the ever present digital life and interaction with computer screens that command my attention all day.

It's the same with music for me. I'm on a computer all day, and even when I go out my phone is playing tug-of-war with my attention. Sometimes the last thing I want to do is go interact with another computer screen to listen to music. Playing records gives me what feels like a very nourishing break from screens and digital life.

 

[Old Listener]

Excellent work.
My problem was being an early adopter (almost 20 years ago) because I was on a plane every week and staying in hotels often and was looking for a file based solution rather than carrying a flight case full of CDs and a Discman (cassettes and walkman previously).
At the beginning it was MP3 only and the tagging system was not flexible in terms of editing, and I am lazy faced with 7000 CDs.
In the end I settled for just putting a work in a sensibly named playlist and that worked, and continues to work, fine.
When I retired I was no longer travelling, didn't need the portable and find sticking a CD in a player less of a PITA than firing up a player only to find there has been some sort of firmware update I have to wait for.
I am just too impatient, and if it comes to the inconvenience and untidiness of having loads of CDs I prefer that to the hatefullness of using some software driven player none of which I have tried and been happy with.
Amarra, Pure Vinyl and Pure music, Audirvana, iTunes, JRiver, BitPerfect, Sooloos, Roon others I tried but fell by the development wayside.
I do have a Qobuz subscription but it is expensive for the amount of use I give it - probably once or twice a week checking out a recording I may wish to buy on CD - so I may well let it expire.
I did, after @sergeauckland spoke highly of it 7 or 8 years ago, buy a SBT which is still sitting in its sealed box...

I recognize the points that you bring up. Our circumstances were different and our choices have been different. I had the time to rip CDs and was willing to make the effort.

I waited to start moving to files rather than CDs until I could store music as Flac files rather than MP3s. My reason was simple: I wanted the same music on computer files as on the CDs I had purchased. I expected to need 1 TB of storage before I stopped acquiring music. At the time that meant 4 250 GB hard drives. I delayed purchasing drives until I needed them; technology advanced and I wound up using 2 500 GB drives.

The ID3 tag standards did get better for classical music. The problem was that ripping s/w and music layers didn't use the extra capabilities for tagging MP3s or Flac files. JRiver s/w was by far the best s/w for classical music that I found. I could populate whatever tags I wanted when I ripped CDs and I could use any of those tags in browsing and selecting music.

Wombat talked about wading through layers of menus to find music. JRiver allowed me to define views that showed me what was in my collection. Here is a screenshot of the view I've used for classical music. I can scroll through the list of composers, artists (performers), works and versions in any order. When I select a composer, the other lists are narrowed to just those tag values present in files with the select composer tag value.

That view is a tool to help me remember what all is in my collection. This UI works very well on my PC with a 24" display in my home office. I use a simpler interface to select music from my listening chair now.

I walk for exercise in my neighborhood most days. I play music thru my smartphone and headphones to minimize boredom. A ~ 40 GB subset of my music collection as MP3 files works fine. I combined movements into a single file per work and rearranged tag contents to fit the limitations of the player s/w on the phone. Making this MP3 subset didn't take too much effort thanks to JRiver's excellent tools and the Foobar2000 command to combine files.

 

[Snarfie]

[

Yep, that's what I've started to do lately. Back around 2008 when I retired and started ripping my whole music collection I only ripped the CD or LP and never added any metadata except for a note if it was a Mobile Fidelity or other special disc. Today I really kick myself in the ass cause I can no longer know what the history is for that disc, like what master it came from or anything else.
It can be a real PITA to do when the CD has a 12 page booklet or such included, but as Ron said, then you can open the book on your monitor or my 75" TV and read it from my recliner easily as I listen to the music. That was something I rarely did with the CD booklet itself since the font is so small and hard to read.

When i ripped all my cd's an listen to the flac files i find my self using the internet way more to find useful information than i can't find in the Cd booklet which is barely readably. Regarding backup i have a 1,5 TB hdd on my laptop + a 3 TB standalone hdd as backup which makes a backup automaticly. Works fine for me. Cd's are stille near me but more as a relic and pure for nostalgia reasons.

 

[Snarfie]

Drive space is cheap, the music priceless.

+1

 

[FrantzM]

CD like Vynil is nostalgia unless you can't find the music on the streaming services.. then you buy it, rip it to your NAS/PC/Cloud account and be done.
Listening to music is not a life and death proposition, one listens to what one likes... It must be said that the convenience of listening through the streaming and/or something like Spotify or Roon, renders the CD experience, medieval. On this I am sure some people then, preferred to read things that were hand- written or copied by the monks rather than printed on a Gutenberg press ...
A bit OT , the same could have applied to Video discs but in my particular case, my Internet is enough for audio streaming ( 44.1/16-bit) but once in a while, inadequate for HD movies and certainly not 4K-able. So I will continue to buy Blu Rays and 4 Ks,,, second hand. I need to find a 4K-capable machine under $100...

 

[mhardy6647]

Late to the party, but, since someone invoked classical music hell...

 

[kach22i]

I've spent the last couple of years ripping a lot more of my CDs (around another 1000 classical and jazz CDs) to FLAC. However, I sometimes wonder why I bother.

I've re-discovered in the last months that is it far more enjoyable to just play the original CDs on a CD player, than sending them through a separate DAC.

1. Having a real physical CD, allows the album to be objectified in the mind as a real object. This allows your mind to categorize your music, including where and when you bought the album (thereby associating the music to a specific time and place in your life).

The picture on the album cover also adds to this and helps to remind you of when you first bought the album.

2. Physically putting the CD in a CD player, allows you to pause and focus your intentions on what you are actually going to do - which is: listening seriously to music. Convenience can be a negative thing in this context, as it causes a loss of focus.

Listening to music seriously is like a meditative practice and you should focus on what you are doing.

The CD (or vinyl) format encourages you to focus on what you are doing, while playing on a computer encourages the opposite mentality. The "inconvenience" of the CD (or vinyl) format is also at least a little more similar to the constraints in listening to a live concert, and prevents you from rapidly switching between different genres or albums. Therefore it is more similar to the intentions of the composer, who would expect the audience to wait patiently in a concert hall before the performance.

This is important because music is better listened to distinctly - switching too much between different albums, can be like blurring together paint, creating a muddy mix of colours in your mind.

3. Having and reading the physical liner notes, is one of the great joys of a (at least classical) music collection. Why would anyone not see the loss of them as a huge minus? While the quality of liner notes varies, a lot of them contain excellent and informative writing, which can't be found anywhere else. For example, I particularly enjoy reading the liner notes in Colombia Jazz Albums. While I often enjoy Deutsche Grammophon liner notes for their focus on writing about the particular performance and performers (I can read about the composition in a book, but not about the particular performance).

4. One of the benefits of serious listening is to escape from the distractions of modern life, including the computer screen. A traditional hi-fi system experience can contribute to this, while playing FLACs forcing you back to interacting with a screen.

When I play physical CDs, I find that I'm encouraged to sit down and listen, or even to read a book. On the other hand, with FLACs - I often browse the internet while listening, distracting one's attention.

-------- ------------

Anyone else agree or have other observations, or is this just me?

Item #4 is strongest in my opinion.

Eight years ago I tried computer based music files for a few months on and off.

Putting myself in front of a screen and keyboard hunting for files was too much like my day job, no escape, no enjoyment.

I've been reading about clock/timing issues associated with streaming that goes though networks and servers. I know only what I've read, and what I've read keeps me away.

I spin CD's, LP vinyl records and FM radio. This old dog does not want to learn any more new tricks, and finds many new tricks to be stressful and over hyped.

 

[MattHooper]

CD like Vynil is nostalgia unless you can't find the music on the streaming services.. then you buy it, rip it to your NAS/PC/Cloud account and be done.
Listening to music is not a life and death proposition, one listens to what one likes... It must be said that the convenience of listening through the streaming and/or something like Spotify or Roon, renders the CD experience, medieval. On this I am sure some people then, preferred to read things that were hand- written or copied by the monks rather than printed on a Gutenberg press ...

;-)

 

[MattHooper]

Late to the party, but, since someone invoked classical music hell...

View attachment 65780

Just switch the above to musicians playing "The Blues" and the above cartoon would capture my sentiments perfectly

 

[Certainkindoffool]

I was going to come down firmly on the side of streaming. I love the convenience and all the suggestions for new artists.

...that was before I cut my internet cable putting in some fence posts. Now I'm really wishing I hadn't boxed up all that physical media.

 

[MattHooper]

I was going to come down firmly on the side of streaming. I love the convenience and all the suggestions for new artists.

...that was before I cut my internet cable putting in some fence posts. Now I'm really wishing I hadn't boxed up all that physical media.

I'm sorry to hear it.

By the same token someone with a record collection could suffer a house fire and lose the entire thing, ending up wishing they'd had a digital collection (with a copy hard drive stored elsewhere) or just used streaming (hence wouldn't have lost any music).

 

[Certainkindoffool]

I can certainly relate to that, most of my father's records got stored in my uncles house after his passing. Unfortunately, there was a basement flood before I got to them and they ended up with quite a bit of mold and mildew on them.

This has taught me not to put all my eggs in the streaming basket though. I pulled a cd player out of storage.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Although I’ve kept my cds, I haven’t played them in a decade. I think streaming killed the whole album consumption for me, as I much prefer curated playlists. I’m not sure I can listen to a full album any more, and I’m not sure if that’s good or bad. Also enjoy constantly finding new music, which is much eas/ier to do on a streaming platform.

Listening to playlists is its own (21st century) kind of pleasure.

But perhaps we should also remember the composers put the pieces and movements together in a certain order expecting that listeners would listen in that order. So when listening to respect a composer's particular intention, I prefer to listen to the music in the order that they intended - another point in favour of the physical CD/vinyl.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

I used to listen with the lights off or very low for the reasons others have stated. Great for concentration and increasing the soundstaging/imaging effect.

I find listening in the dark is really useful for larger symphonic works in stereo - the sensory deprivation can improve your focus, and even create an immersive experience and allow you to tune into the timbre and position of every instrument. (The only downside is that the darkness can induce you to fall asleep, if you're not well rested that day.)

 

[MattHooper]

Listening to playlists is fine.

But we should also remember the composers put the pieces and movements together in a certain order expecting that listeners would listen in that order. So when listening to respect a composer's particular intention, I prefer to listen to the music in the order that they intended - another point in favour of the physical CD/vinyl.

Yeah, when I was in a band we really sweated our set list order and the order of songs on our CD! Same with all my musician friends.