Pearljam5000
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Which brand and/or any specific speaker / monitor model is better than Genelec and especially the Ones?
I am somewhat puzzled about the lack of phase linearity in most of Genelec´s monitors.
The 8351 seems a step down from the 8350
Can you elaborate on the phase issue with the Genelecs?I am somewhat puzzled about the lack of phase linearity in most of Genelec´s monitors. Is there any one with linear phase besides the 8350? I think linear phase is more important than coaxial arrangement... The 8351 seems a step down from the 8350... It looks Neumann is ahead in this aspect with their Kh-750 and MA-1 "phase linearizers", and with the already linear Kh-80.
On the other hand, the phase issue can always be solved with Dirac. If you count with that, you can concentrate in other aspects of performance and the number of reference-level speakers is multiplied... (that is my current situation, I don´t know which route to take).
You must clarify terms of "being better".
If your priority is clear and fast lows, you might look at big ATC actives.
If you need phase linear system without delay, you can check out PSI.
If you need extreme clarity in mids and highs, you can listen for biggest stats that you can afford.
Genelecs are good, but they are nearfields monitors in principle, so they can't be used optimally in big halls.
There are lot of tools suitable for different cases.
Sorry, I omitted fact that question implied The Ones.Last time I checked Genelec product portfolio there was
Really learnt something here, so if I understand correctly, say for a 80x0 Genelec with 2 way analog crossover, the acoustic centre (at top of woofer as indicated in the manual?) should have linear phase, while if I move around the sound becomes out of phase and all those non room mode cancellations will be what I heard as difference rather than phase?People are talking as if phase is either linear or not linear. That isn't the case. You can make the phase flat at one point, but it will no longer be flat at another point.
Example: you have a 2-way speaker using 4th order linkwitz-riley crossovers. The acoustic center (where the two drivers are in phase) is approximately in the middle of them, since they're both 180 degrees out of phase (in different directions). Moving above or below this acoustic center slowly makes the phase relationship different, until you encounter the point where they are almost perfectly out of phase with each other, typically seen as a big null vertically (in both directions). This is also why most loudspeakers have all drivers aligned vertically instead of horizontally, because you'd rather have these nulls in the vertical response than the horizontal response.
The only way to get truly linear phase at any listening angle is to use a completely coaxial system, where there is no difference of distance between drivers regardless of your angle to them. Of course, as Floyd Toole puts it: "humans don't hear waveforms", so I consider phase rather unimportant. We do hear the resulting frequency response deviations of these waveforms, however.
My example was just for a 4th order linkwitz-riley filter (which is probably one of the more common crossovers). Technically the phase isn't "linear" in an absolute sense, because the drivers are 180 degrees out of phase in different directions, which sums to 360 degrees, one full cycle out of phase where the tweeter is ahead of the woofer. Generally this is just shown as the phase "wrapping around" in a measurement, and it's of little audible consequence.Really learnt something here, so if I understand correctly, say for a 80x0 Genelec with 2 way analog crossover, the acoustic centre (at top of woofer as indicated in the manual?) should have linear phase, while if I move around the sound becomes out of phase and all those non room mode cancellations will be what I heard as difference rather than phase?
Genelec´s 80x0 don´t try to have linear phase and don´t have it, no matter where you place yourself. Their phase is never linear (same goes for the Ones...). On the other hand, those speakers designed for linear phase do have it at the intended listening point.Really learnt something here, so if I understand correctly, say for a 80x0 Genelec with 2 way analog crossover, the acoustic centre (at top of woofer as indicated in the manual?) should have linear phase, while if I move around the sound becomes out of phase and all those non room mode cancellations will be what I heard as difference rather than phase?