Are we heading for a time when all CDs will be MQA coded - no redbook available?

[Lambda]

Using the computer they don't have to obtain the files and load them to USB storage?

What fantasy land should this be where piracy don't exist and people using CDs because they have no computer or smartphone?

 

[mansr]

What fantasy land should this be where piracy don't exist and people using CDs because they have no computer or smartphone?

The 1980s. I always suspected it wasn't real.

 

[Wombat]

if this is your personal preference.
But there is likely a computer inside your CD player... so whats wrong with a dvd player...?

Don't expect the mayoralty of consumer to share this preference with you.
So it will become a small and expensive niche market at some point.

OK, a PC.

 

[mhardy6647]

The 1980s. I always suspected it wasn't real.

Well... they were certainly different.
The '80s, that is.

 

[Lambda]

OK, a PC.

And what’s a PC for you and why would you need one?
A device that "stream" can play and decode digital files can be verry stand alone and cheap.

they were certainly different.
The '80s, that is.

 

[Wombat]

Well... they were certainly different.
The '80s, that is.

The world ended in 1979, Sex Pistols excepted.

 

[Wombat]

And what’s a PC for you and why would you need one?
A device that "stream" can play and decode digital files can be verry stand alone and cheap.



View attachment 116724

No screen and on-screen menus needed to access file library?

 

[Mnyb]

Its just that we don’t currently need yet another music file format we simply have to many of them as it is.
And we certainly don’t need another proprietary closed format .
And we absolutely don’t need a closed format based on some shaky not per reviewed “science” that prescribes weird filters in our playback chain.

FLAC is good enough it is flexible enough to have what ever sample rates and channel count we can think of.
For the consumer 24/96 flac solves all “problems” MQA claims it fixes.
So the format is actually designed to fit some commercial need for streaming services and record labels and equipment manufacturers not the end users needs . For the poor end user all formats ever needed already existed before MQA ?

“ who,ordered this “ is my question

I’m happy buying FLAC downloads as sending physical media via the post or to record stores ( to which I have to drive my car )is using up to much resources . So physical carriers is not the future for me.

I happily buying used CD’s as they already there but I don’t specifically want one made for me if it can be avoided. If I can’t get the music in any other way I ofcourse order a CD.

 

[scott wurcer]

Don't know, I don't know anyone that uses lossy files in my presence. People that I know use vinyl, cassette.

Not Lossy????

 

[Chrispy]

True enough. That is why I was very happy to find this site, so that I could learn more. Catching up when you are 20 years behind is hard to do but I feel that I can learn from others the things that work and not worry so much about the steps (both positive & negative) that it took to get to the things that work.

Meant to mention, you should check out Amirs video (particularly his experience/comments in the beginning)

 

[EJ3]

Not Lossy????

Unless you are using the cassette as a data file, not a lossy file on the computer and not lossy by the definition of a computer file. You are stretching like Stretch Armstrong

 

[EJ3]

Meant to mention, you should check out Amirs video (particularly his experience/comments in the beginning)

I would if people would let me have the time to do it. In fact, I have been trying to watch the latest several videos since about 5 Eastern Standard Time today. I have yet to get to any of them. Because of some people have been asking completely unrelated questions of me about my personal experiences, preventing me from having the time to actually learn something, which is why I donate to this site. To Learn. And only to learn. The questions seemed like an attack. And certainly set me back on the little learning time that I have.

 

[Chrispy]

I would if people would let me have the time to do it. In fact, I have been trying to watch the latest several videos since about 5 Eastern Standard Time today. I have yet to get to any of them. Because of some people have been asking completely unrelated questions of me about my personal experiences, preventing me from having the time to actually learn something, which is why I donate to this site. To Learn. And only to learn. The questions seemed like an attack. And certainly set me back on the little learning time that I have.

This somewhat explains your comments earlier. Lighten up. Make time for stuff if you care about it....it takes some time to catch up/absorb audio info, too.....don't stress it.

 

[EJ3]

This somewhat explains your comments earlier. Lighten up. Make time for stuff if you care about it....it takes some time to catch up/absorb audio info, too.....don't stress it.

after getting up this morning and driving 5 hours to a place in NC to help someone with an emergency (they were stuck there because the took their daughter a car & she ended up in the hospital, so I went to retrieve them, Stayed an hour, ate & drove back. Then I came in to relax and learn. I rarely have much time & learning on ASR is a deep pleasure for me, when I can do it, even if I don't understand it all. Each time that I have made a few hours to do it, I learn another piece or unlearn something that I thought was true. I am getting to where I can put some of these things together in the beginning inkling of a cohesive knowledge base. This causes me to have some enthusiasm. Kind of like when I read an Isaac Asimov book on mathematics and realized that my instructors in school had been incapable of teaching me mathematics but someone had written a book on it in a way that I suddenly understood technics for basic math and uses for algebra. An Epiphany if you will. That is what I slowly work toward here. An integration of knowledge that flows into a whole (instead of just dis-jointed pieces, which is the way I see it at the moment). Thanks for taking the time to figure out my babbling about things I don't know enough about and giving some pertinent advice.

 

[symphara]

There is no "rest of the data."

Perhaps it's easiest to demonstrate with an example. Take this file: http://www.lindberg.no/hires/mqa-2018/2L-110_04_stereo.mqa.flac

First, check the MQA metadata:

$ mqascan -1 2L-110_04_stereo.mqa.flac
00000000: MQA signature at bit 8
00000000: [5] datasync
          magic                     36: 0x11319207d
          stream_pos_flag            1: 0
          pad                        1: 1
          orig_rate                  5: 0x03 [352.8 kHz]
          src_rate                   5: 0x00 [44.1 kHz]
          render_filter              5: 6
          unknown_1                  2: 0
          render_bitdepth            2: 1 [18 bits]
          unknown_2                  4: 0x0
          auth_info                  4: 0x0
          auth_level                 4: 0x9
          item_count                 7: 2
          size                       8: 0x14
          size                       8: 0x0b
          type                       8: 0x00
          type                       8: 0x01
          [type 0]
          stage2_dither              2: 2
          gain_index                 4: 0
          unknown_5                  7: 15
          unknown_6                  7: 127
          [type 1]
          unknown_7                  6: 25
          unknown_8                  2: 1
          unknown_9                  1: 0
          unknown_10                 2: 1
          checksum                   4: 0xc

This tells us that the original file had a sample rate of 352.8 kHz, the MQA file is 44.1 kHz, and that the "renderer" output should have a resolution of 18 bits. It also instructs the decoder to turn on the blue light.

Next, decode and "render" the file to 352.8 kHz:

$ mqadec 2L-110_04_stereo.mqa.flac dec.wav
mqaAuthored/88200
$ mqarender -r 352800 dec.wav rend.wav
$ soxi dec.wav rend.wav

Input File     : 'dec.wav'
Channels       : 2
Sample Rate    : 88200
Precision      : 24-bit
Duration       : 00:05:42.88 = 30242016 samples ~ 25716 CDDA sectors
File Size      : 181M
Bit Rate       : 4.23M
Sample Encoding: 24-bit Signed Integer PCM


Input File     : 'rend.wav'
Channels       : 2
Sample Rate    : 352800
Precision      : 24-bit
Duration       : 00:05:42.88 = 120968064 samples ~ 25716 CDDA sectors
File Size      : 726M
Bit Rate       : 16.9M
Sample Encoding: 24-bit Signed Integer PCM

The decoder outputs an 88.2 kHz file, and the "renderer" upsamples this to the requested 352.8 kHz.

Take a closer look at that final output:

$ sox rend.wav -n stats
             Overall     Left      Right
DC offset  -0.000000  0.000000 -0.000000
Min level  -0.892944 -0.849609 -0.892944
Max level   0.931061  0.909576  0.931061
Pk lev dB      -0.62     -0.82     -0.62
RMS lev dB    -21.89    -21.80    -21.98
RMS Pk dB      -9.90    -10.38     -9.90
RMS Tr dB     -69.40    -69.40    -69.00
Crest factor       -     11.19     11.69
Flat factor     2.92      4.44      0.00
Pk count        2.50         3         2
Bit-depth      16/16     16/16     16/16
Num samples     121M
Length s     342.880
Scale max   1.000000
Window s       0.050

Well, ain't that funny. There are only 16 bits actually in use here.

As we know that "rendering" is just upsampling with a strange filter that might affect the passband, taking that final version (that would have been sent to the DAC chip) and downsampling it to 88.2 kHz using a proper filter will preserve all real information that the MQA process provided. To preserve the dynamic range (dither/quantisation noise density), we give it 2 more bits of resolution, one for each halving of the sample rate.

$ sox dec.wav alt.flac rate -u 88200 dither -p 18

Finally, we can compare the size of the MQA file to the equivalent plain FLAC:

$ ls -l *.flac
-rw-r--r-- 1 mru users 57976825 Mar  6 22:57 2L-110_04_stereo.mqa.flac
-rw-r--r-- 1 mru users 54312047 Mar  6 23:19 alt.flac

The FLAC file is only 94% of the MQA file size. In conclusion, MQA is useless for saving bandwidth.

I am very surprised to see open source tools (mqadec and mqarender, whose source code turns out to be available on github under an MIT license) being used to render a closed format. I didn’t have time to look at the code, but is the MQA format understood?

 

[Jimbob54]

*makes popcorn*

 

[Mnyb]

I've just got my copy of Dominique Fils-Aime's lastest album Three Little Words. I find her to be one of the most creative jazz/pop artists around at the moment. But it appears that the CD version is only available as an encoded MQA CD. There is no redbook CD available.

View attachment 116400

Here's the usual MQA blurb for this CD: MQA encoded CD for higher resolution playback on MQA enabled devices: Plays on regular CD players and MQA enabled CD players.

Looks like I'm forced into either vinyl (not my thing) or a download from Qobuz. It's the first time I've encountered this. I was beginning to think MQA was dead in the water - perhaps that is not the case.

I bought it from Amazon, so I can return it (it's not described as an MQA CD on their website). Although I'm tempted to keep the CD just to see how the MQA-CD rip sounds compared to the file I will purchase from Qobuz.

Back on the topic this artist yet again a thanks for this tip

I've personally found her previous album even better ,much better even.

https://singwithmi.bandcamp.com/album/stay-tuned

I might jut have bought everything form her on bandcamp

 

[mansr]

I am very surprised to see open source tools (mqadec and mqarender, whose source code turns out to be available on github under an MIT license) being used to render a closed format. I didn’t have time to look at the code, but is the MQA format understood?

Those tools use an MQA decoding library extracted from a NAD/BlueSound firmware image. The format used by the renderer is simple and mostly understood. There are a few bits that I haven't figured out what they do, if anything. The MQA "core" format is much more complicated, and I don't have the motivation to spend the time required to fully reverse engineer it.

 

[symphara]

Those tools use an MQA decoding library extracted from a NAD/BlueSound firmware image. The format used by the renderer is simple and mostly understood. There are a few bits that I haven't figured out what they do, if anything. The MQA "core" format is much more complicated, and I don't have the motivation to spend the time required to fully reverse engineer it.

Was the firmware reverse engineered or is it an external dependency for the tools?

 

[escape2]

Back on the topic this artist yet again a thanks for this tip

I've personally found her previous album even better ,much better even.

https://singwithmi.bandcamp.com/album/stay-tuned

I might jut have bought everything form her on bandcamp

So did you run her latest album through @mansr 's checker to see if it's MQA free?