"Audiophile" motherboards

[KMO]

That's not an example of what you just said.

 

[Sokel]

That's not an example of what you just said.

That's exactly what I say from the beginning,maybe my poor English don't help.
But I separed it early saying that I'm not talking about the intergrated audio every motherboard has.

Edit: here:

"Audiophile" motherboards

I'm talking about the ones who advertise "audiophile" grade constructions,with separate USB paths,etc. Truth or snake oil?And do we have any measurements?

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[antcollinet]

That's exactly what I say from the beginning,maybe my poor English don't help.
But I separed it early saying that I'm not talking about the intergrated audio every motherboard has.

Edit: here:

"Audiophile" motherboards

I'm talking about the ones who advertise "audiophile" grade constructions,with separate USB paths,etc. Truth or snake oil?And do we have any measurements?

www.audiosciencereview.com

But as we know from the many tests done here. Good dacs don't care about clean power - even if they are powered from the USB port. They filter it internally.

So in that case, this just becomes more audiophile nonsense.

 

[Sokel]

But as we know from the many tests done here. Good dacs don't care about clean power - even if they are powered from the USB port. They filter it internally.

So in that case, this just becomes more audiophile nonsense.

Yes.but there is not a week passing without a thread about fan noises,cpu noise activity,ground loops,etc.
Measurements can be quite revealing,as the friend who posted earlier did and as it seems not all dacs are immune,even the ones with decent measurements.

(see my own measurement earlier in the thread with the Khadas and observe the grass,it's one thing Amir's perfect analyser and set-up and a very different thing real life,as sits,measurements (with all the wrongs I can make)).

 

[KMO]

But as we know from the many tests done here. Good dacs don't care about clean power - even if they are powered from the USB port. They filter it internally.

So in that case, this just becomes more audiophile nonsense.

I tend to agree, but...

You sort of could argue that the other way, about a DAC going on about the high quality of its USB power filtering.

"Good USB host implementations provide clean power. In that case this just becomes more audiophile nonsense".

I mean, it's kind of good if everyone does a good job? Not sure what specifications say about cleanliness of USB power rails, and hence how robust DACs should be expected to be.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Good dacs don't care about clean power - even if they are powered from the USB port. They filter it internally.

Marginal power filtering seems to be a common theme in dongle DACs.

 

[GXAlan]

But as we know from the many tests done here. Good dacs don't care about clean power - even if they are powered from the USB port. They filter it internally.

So in that case, this just becomes more audiophile nonsense.

 

[Sokel]

If it's not passing all the weird fan/cpu-gpu activity is good enough for me,in the past I had a rig who I could hear everything!


But even with my present PC which is silent in terms of what I here I have funny things to show:

That's a sloppy measurement of the Khadas tone1.
See the grass?
Now,If I change the polarity of the PC's wall socket (in some countries in Europe you can do that,line-neutral-earth have a code but is not always following it,so...) the grass on the left approaches the 100's region instead of the 120's you see here.

Not to mention than even the placement of the measured devices count but that is something else.
Ok,since I do not hear it I shouldn't care.
But is the principle.





View attachment 227638

Forgot to mention that Khadas here is powered by a Salas PSU,only the ground is connected to the PC,on the other hand E-MU is PC powered.
I get a SINAD near 98 with it's normal USB-A to USB-C straight to the PC.

 

[antcollinet]

View attachment 227654

We'd need to know the reason for the SNR reduction, before that can be evidence of benefit for audiophile motherboard. To start with, the performance is already near 20db worse than measured by Amir - so what else in the system is generating noise? EG ground loop, which MB design is unlikely to help with.

 

[Sokel]

near 20db worse than measured by Amir

Amir's test rig is designed to extract the very best (or worst) without contributing anything by itself.
Not the case with real life performance.
But the above example is between two PSU's and the difference is huge.
My own results is also absolutely repeatable between external powered Khadas and not.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Sokel we sean how it can effect designs with industry leading EMI rejection rates for a CS43131 DAC in case of dirty power supply and how it's impossible task to get rid of it with OP Amp's that ware not very good at it. All of that with external (multilayer) CPB's in enclosures. The PC case it self is a horrible environment with switching power supply on the high load, bunch of high consumers, magnetic dust filters, bunch of RF radio transmitters. I don't say it can't be done (actually believe it can with Polimer Termo Graphite Elastines as a shielding which they still don't use) but why and at what price? I mean you have a great external DAC's for little more than 100$ and if you use optical link you can be totally assured it won't effect it at all.

 

[Sokel]

@Sokel we sean how it can effect designs with industry leading EMI rejection rates for a CS43131 DAC in case of dirty power supply and how it's impossible task to get rid of it with OP Amp's that ware not very good at it. All of that with external (multilayer) CPB's in enclosures. The PC case it self is a horrible environment with switching power supply on the high load, bunch of high consumers, magnetic dust filters, bunch of RF radio transmitters. I don't say it can't be done (actually believe it can with Polimer Termo Graphite Elastines as a shielding which they still don't use) but why and at what price? I mean you have a great external DAC's for little more than 100$ and if you use optical link you can be totally assured it won't effect it at all.

They don't ask for a premium as I have seen,it's more of a feature,at least in Gigabyte's case,I just wonder if it really works,that's why I'm asking for measurements.
As for my use case,at nearly 104 SINAD (as I measured it considering that I'm at the limits of my ADC) I don't think I'll ever hear something.

 

[JeffS7444]

A number of years ago, AOpen produced a motherboard equipped with Sovtek 6922 vacuum tube and other audiophile-type parts, and I wanted one for the sheer improbability of it all.
http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/aopentube/

Gigabyte USB DAC-UP sounds like a ground-loop eliminator built into the motherboard. If you actually have a ground loop via USB connection, I'd expect it to make a very noticeable improvement.

 

[antcollinet]

Amir's test rig is designed to extract the very best (or worst) without contributing anything by itself.
Not the case with real life performance.
But the above example is between two PSU's and the difference is huge.
My own results is also absolutely repeatable between external powered Khadas and not.

No, it is between a PSU and a laptop. We've no idea if the difference is from the power supply to the Dac - or something else related to the system, such as how grounding changes - or even position of wiring.

 

[DonR]

A number of years ago, AOpen produced a motherboard equipped with Sovtek 6922 vacuum tube and other audiophile-type parts, and I wanted one for the sheer improbability of it all.
http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/aopentube/

Gigabyte USB DAC-UP sounds like a ground-loop eliminator built into the motherboard. If you actually have a ground loop via USB connection, I'd expect it to make a very noticeable improvement.

What does this buy you vs an outboard USB ground loop isolator?

 

[Sokel]

No, it is between a PSU and a laptop. We've no idea if the difference is from the power supply to the Dac - or something else related to the system, such as how grounding changes.

Agreed,but in my case the only thing different is the powering,in one case throught PC in the other with Salas.
And as I said above,it's absolutely repeatable.Bad PC?Maybe,it's old already,built with nice components at it's time,considering to build a new one it would be interesting to see if these things actually work.

 

[Sokel]

What does this buy you vs an outboard USB ground loop isolator?

30-400 euro (depends what isolator you choose) in your pocket if it works?Motherboards feature is practically free.

 

[DonR]

30-400 euro (depends what isolator you choose) in your pocket if it works?Motherboards feature is practically free.

USB Isolators start at $5. Outboard isolators are portable and that way you are free to choose the motherboard for the other features you want or on price.

 

[antcollinet]

30-400 euro (depends what isolator you choose) in your pocket if it works?Motherboards feature is practically free.

I'd just go for a mothboard with built in Toslink. Complete electrical isolation of PC from Audio. It doesn't get better than that.

 

[Sokel]

USB Isolators start at $5.

High speed ones?Example?