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Audyssey's Next Generation of Room Correction (MultEQ-X)

Are you a current Denon/Marantz AVR Owner and if so what do you think of Audyssey's MultEQ-X?

  • I'm a current AVR owner. $200 price is acceptable. I've already purchased it.

  • I'm a current AVR owner. $200 price is acceptable. I’m willing to spend the money once I learn more.

  • I'm a current AVR owner. $200 price is too high. Anything lower is better.

  • I'm not a current Denon/Marantz AVR owner. $200 price is acceptable.

  • I'm not a current Denon/Marantz AVR owner. $200 price is too high. Anything lower lower is better.

  • I'm a current AVR owner. $200 price is acceptable, but I don't like the restrictive terms. Wont buy.

  • I'm not an owner. $200 price is acceptable, but I don't like the restrictive terms. Wont buy.

  • Other (please explain).


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Reverend Slim

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New version of MultEQ X is out, including a link to buy calibrated mics from Amazon. I loaded my best cal file and re-uploaded it to my AVR with the new version, and the on-AVR distances are slightly different now. Haven't given it a listen to see if it matters, but it was curious.
 

Andysu

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i don't use this rubbish auto lazy eq on my rubbish denon avc-x8500h . auto eq is for lazy people to bone idle to sweat over hours if not days of manual eq . auto, meh rubbish
 

anotherhobby

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$79 for an individually calibrated mic, well that's not too terrible I guess. Link for the lazy.
Thanks for the link. This is effectively saying "thanks for the $199, now it'll be another $79 to calibrate your mic." Thinking thru how it works, from a functional perspective, this is by far the fastest to market approach to get calibrated mics to people that want them. I'd prefer to use my UMIK-1, but I can also see how that's way more work than offering a calibration file to match a specific mic without having to change much at all. A UMIK-1 would require pretty big architecture changes from a software/hardware/process perspective since the AVR is doing the measuring and not the software.
 

GalZohar

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The measurements are done by the AVR but the results are stored in the software. I wonder how much trouble it would be ro convert the results of a 3rd party measurement like REW to something Audyssey can use.
 

Chromatischism

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The measurements are done by the AVR but the results are stored in the software. I wonder how much trouble it would be ro convert the results of a 3rd party measurement like REW to something Audyssey can use.
Probably not worth the effort since Audyssey is working on it and will come up with something better than a 3rd party could.

In a sense, they already convert PEQ filters into FIR so I don't think there's much work left to do.
 

GalZohar

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Probably not worth the effort since Audyssey is working on it and will come up with something better than a 3rd party could.

In a sense, they already convert PEQ filters into FIR so I don't think there's much work left to do.
I meant for being able to use a 3rd party calibrated mic, if they can't implement the measurement process to be on the PC (at least so far they didn't and we don't' know if they will), maybe they could at least let us have 3rd party software do this and provide the required measurement results. The rest of the process remains unaffected.

PEQ filters aren't really PEQ, they're just another tool for modifying the target curve.
 

Reverend Slim

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Thanks for the link. This is effectively saying "thanks for the $199, now it'll be another $79 to calibrate your mic." Thinking thru how it works, from a functional perspective, this is by far the fastest to market approach to get calibrated mics to people that want them. I'd prefer to use my UMIK-1, but I can also see how that's way more work than offering a calibration file to match a specific mic without having to change much at all. A UMIK-1 would require pretty big architecture changes from a software/hardware/process perspective since the AVR is doing the measuring and not the software.
I still think that if they know the general cal loaded in the AVR for their mics, they could compare that to the cal file for a UMIK-1 to figure the difference and adjust accordingly. But I think their argument is that calculating the timings has to happen through the AVR itself. They have talked about adding import of REW files to adjust filtering though, which I think is probably the best way of handling things for people who want to use their UMIK-1.

I don't have a laptop or UMIK-1, so I don't do REW... so I just ordered the $79 mic and will tinker with it this weekend. I have 4 of the Audyssey mics (one with a bad capsule that barely reads highs and the other 3 that give pretty similar results, though I do have a preferred mic in the bunch), so it will be interesting to see if it makes any difference. I've spent far more money on dumber things in this hobby.
 

tecnogadget

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Could some users please upload before and after calibration measurements made with REW (using a 50dB scaling, example= max 90dB, min 40dB from 20Hz to 20kHz). That would be great
 

GalZohar

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Importing REW files was what I meant, although if they don't have the time to implement it they could at least provide a way for 3rd party to implement the conversion required for the importing.

You should really get a UMIK-1, without it it's quite difficult to find the optimal delay for your subwoofer. The Audyssey method for setting the subwoofer delay is pretty bad and I got a major improvement adding 2m to the sub distance in addition to what Audyssey set.

Also quick measurements with REW can really help with speaker placement. Using Audyssey as a measurement tool for this purpose is very slow, and the view of the results is very limited.
 

Reverend Slim

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You should really get a UMIK-1, without it it's quite difficult to find the optimal delay for your subwoofer. The Audyssey method for setting the subwoofer delay is pretty bad and I got a major improvement adding 2m to the sub distance in addition to what Audyssey set.

Also quick measurements with REW can really help with speaker placement. Using Audyssey as a measurement tool for this purpose is very slow, and the view of the results is very limited.
I may eventually do the whole UMIK-1 and MiniDSP thing for my subs, but honestly, I've been pretty happy with the response I'm getting in my room without it. I have some room-related issues that I need to handle with treatments, but the only glaring problem I have with my subs is a deep narrow null around 110Hz that existed both before and after I went dual subs. But... it's at 110Hz and I'm crossing everything over below that, so I haven't felt like it was a big deal thus far.

Don't get me wrong - I'm super anal and will probably end up doing it eventually. But I would have to buy a laptop too, which I have no use for whatsoever other than for this purpose. Makes it a hard sell. I run MultEQ X from my PC one room over from my theater area, but I don't think that would work too well for REW given the length of cable I'd need to my MLP.
 

GalZohar

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How do you know what response you get in your room without measurement software? Especially the summed response of the speakers+sub with crossovers and Audyssey enabled... I don't have a minidsp and got a big improvement just measuring and finding the optimal subwoofer distance and speaker positions.
 

Reverend Slim

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How do you know what response you get in your room without measurement software? Especially the summed response of the speakers+sub with crossovers and Audyssey enabled... I don't have a minidsp and got a big improvement just measuring and finding the optimal subwoofer distance and speaker positions.
Well, generally just by how it sounds to me. And as imperfect as it may be, also by playing noise tones and using Spectroid on my phone to look for any glaring issues. I've found the best crossovers for my speakers mostly by playing content I know and trying different settings, informed by what I see in Audyssey's measurements and tailoring the cutoffs in MultEQ X a bit. Not pretending it's ideal... but MultEQ X thus far has done a pretty solid job with sub distance. At least enough that I don't feel that anything is lacking across any of my crossover ranges.
 

anotherhobby

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One thing that drove me nuts with Audyssey before was that the sub's low frequency roll off can't be disabled in the iOS app or on the receiver. I love that you can disable it in MultEQ-X. Maybe it's there to protect weaker subs or something, but it always bugged me because my JL Audio e112's have no problems digging deep at all. Simply disable the Cutoff Mode for the subwoofer under Design Target Curve.

Screen Shot 2022-03-09 at 5.47.37 PM.png


The effect is not subtle.

sub-tweak.png
 
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Chromatischism

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One thing that drove me nuts with Audyssey before was that the sub's low frequency roll off can't be disabled in the iOS app or on the receiver. I love that you can disable it in MultEQ-X. Maybe it's there to protect weaker subs or something, but it always bugged me because my JL Audio e112's have no problems digging deep at all. Simply disable the Cutoff Mode for the subwoofer under Design Target Curve.

View attachment 191495

The effect is not subtle.

View attachment 191494
The 112 has a frequency response of:

Frequency Response (Anechoic)22 - 118 Hz (±1.5dB)
-3 dB at 21 Hz / 120 Hz
-10 dB at 17 Hz / 153 Hz

My subs are -2 dB at 17 Hz and -6 dB at 12 Hz, and I have never had an issue with how Audyssey handles the low end.

Looking at your measurements, your subs drop off below about 16 Hz in your room, before getting a big room gain boost which picks them back up below 14 Hz. It's likely Audyssey is (in your case) seeing the F3 correctly and acting on that.
 

chych7

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Hard to believe a 12" sub is going to hit 10 Hz meaningfully, unless your room is tiny. What's distortion look like? To me it looks like the sub is trying to roll off at ~16 Hz, and Audyssey is boosting it like crazy. Can you hit >100 dB 10 Hz with that?
 

Chromatischism

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Hard to believe a 12" sub is going to hit 10 Hz meaningfully, unless your room is tiny. What's distortion look like? To me it looks like the sub is trying to roll off at ~16 Hz, and Audyssey is boosting it like crazy. Can you hit >100 dB 10 Hz with that?
I think it's just room gain. Could be wrong. Hopefully it is, for the sake of his subs, and not an Audyssey boost.
 

chych7

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Some FR sweeps with Audyssey disabled would indicate the natural roll off behavior of the subs, and whether it actually is hitting 10 Hz or if Audyssey is just boosting it.
 
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