JayGilb
Major Contributor
Nice mod roci_big_ear and a great write up.
Didn't expect such an attack on my skills, Rick ;-)Not sure about how a German operation like Behringer would address this post (if at all). @ctrl would know better than I. As has already been pointed out, this could simply be one defective speaker. Given how important “branding” is here these days, the most I might expect is for the marketing folks to call Amir and request a retraction…
Before we go there, consider the following:
While can give the OP some leeway, ASR has stood for objectivity in audio equipments reviews. So far, this thread is a bunch of subjective claims that lack scientific credibility.
- No proof has been offered to demonstrate the alleged out of box performance is lacking. A good start would be to establish a baseline measurement.
- The OP also has not demonstrated how the speaker settings might help or not.
- The OP has not shown measurements of how his mods affected a baseline measurement.
- The OP has not established that his measurement system is accurate and that his measurement conditions are credible.
- Most of what has been claimed, could have be addressed with the speaker settings and/or external eq. One’s willingness to modify electronics is NOT a substitute for good engineering practice.
I hope further objective evidence is shared, but suggest the usual ASR skepticism should apply here for now.
No malice intended.Didn't expect such an attack on my skills, Rick ;-)
It would be interesting to see klippel measurements by Amirm on this loudspeaker.Not sure about how a German operation like Behringer would address this post (if at all). @ctrl would know better than I. As has already been pointed out, this could simply be one defective speaker. Given how important “branding” is here these days, the most I might expect is for the marketing folks to call Amir and request a retraction…
Before we go there, consider the following:
While can give the OP some leeway, ASR has stood for objectivity in audio equipments reviews. So far, this thread is a bunch of subjective claims that lack scientific credibility.
- No proof has been offered to demonstrate the alleged out of box performance is lacking. A good start would be to establish a baseline measurement.
- The OP also has not demonstrated how the speaker settings might help or not.
- The OP has not shown measurements of how his mods affected a baseline measurement.
- The OP has not established that his measurement system is accurate and that his measurement conditions are credible.
- Most of what has been claimed, could have be addressed with the speaker settings and/or external eq. One’s willingness to modify electronics is NOT a substitute for good engineering practice.
I hope further objective evidence is shared, but suggest the usual ASR skepticism should apply here for now.
I don't feel the need to be so stiff. Not everything needs to be a peer reviewed science paper. If we need to wait to have a full Klippel Rig or Anechoic chambers to do anything, well nobody does anything. Why not take this for what it is, a fun little experiment... The Frequency response, under the limited scope of what the OP can do, look better after than before. That should certainly be sufficient to be allowed to post on ASR. Not all we find on this site is meant to advance the state of the art and expose grand discoveries in audio reproduction.Not sure about how a German operation like Behringer would address this post (if at all). @ctrl would know better than I. As has already been pointed out, this could simply be one defective speaker. Given how important “branding” is here these days, the most I might expect is for the marketing folks to call Amir and request a retraction…
Before we go there, consider the following:
While can give the OP some leeway, ASR has stood for objectivity in audio equipments reviews. So far, this thread is a bunch of subjective claims that lack scientific credibility.
- No proof has been offered to demonstrate the alleged out of box performance is lacking. A good start would be to establish a baseline measurement.
- The OP also has not demonstrated how the speaker settings might help or not.
- The OP has not shown measurements of how his mods affected a baseline measurement.
- The OP has not established that his measurement system is accurate and that his measurement conditions are credible.
- Most of what has been claimed, could have be addressed with the speaker settings and/or external eq. One’s willingness to modify electronics is NOT a substitute for good engineering practice.
I hope further objective evidence is shared, but suggest the usual ASR skepticism should apply here for now.
I don't feel the need to be so stiff. Not everything needs to be a peer reviewed science paper. If we need to wait to have a full Klippel Rig or Anechoic chambers to do anything, well nobody does anything. Why not take this for what it is, a fun little experiment... The Frequency response, under the limited scope of what the OP can do, look better after than before. That should certainly be sufficient to be allowed to post on ASR. Not all we find on this site is meant to advance the state of the art and expose grand discoveries in audio reproduction.
@Rick Sykora, you doubted my setup and asked what it is. I answered and I guess it seemed reasonable, so then you claimed I don't follow good engineering practices (still puzzled why you made this unsubstantiated claim). Instead of attacking my analysis, I suggest you ignore it if you cannot enjoy it for what it is.
In the meantime, I am too looking forward to Amir's review. FWIW, I have reproduced Amir's measurements on another speaker fairly closely, so this would answer whether my unit was faulty, or it is a systematic issue with the model.
Rick, I would give him some leeway. It was an interesting read to me, and do not think he has any ill will. Although I agree with what you say, I think he did a lot of this "on the fly".I may have been a bit candiid but did not intend disrespect.
As I stated earlier, the measurements you have provided do not prove any need to modify the speaker Internally. If you have them, then please post them. If you can show high correlation to Amir’s Klippel measurements, that would certainly demonstrate competency too. ASR is about substantiating your claims through measurements. Unless you have some credentials that you have not shared, the substantiation comes in the form of measurements (as I stated in post #36). This is the way.
I wager it was more than just a few hours... even if it did not include interruptions like reaching for that cup of java or watching shenanigans in Ukraine.After another couple of hours of studying the board and simulating the circuit,
The OP posted something that interested quite a few people, including @amirm.This is the way.
Maybe the tolerances of the drivers are too high for fixed filters, and each speaker actually needs different filter settings. My K&H O300D have an analog 5-band adjustable EQ which is factory calibrated. But you pay for it, of course.As you can see, all the mods I did cost absolutely nothing (other than a weekend of my effort). I am dumbfounded why Behringer doesn't tune their speakers better.
The (in?)famous Danny Richie has made a business out of that -- check out videos from "GR-Research" on U-Toob.Can you think of another reviewer in the audio world who takes out a soldering iron and "fixes" a factory mistake to improve it. I love it !!!!
And all it takes is a change order. the components cost the same.This is where Amir and ASR offers a valuable service to manufacturers, should they choose to avail themselves.
This is probably the truth, welcome to the annoying world of excessive capitalism.I don't think that Behringer tried to save money here. It's more about trying not to cannibalize the market share of their higher end products. Selling a cheap low end product that vies with their much more expensive offerings for customers is just not profitable for them.