Best option out of these 3

[mallow81]

Hello! I am new to this forum.
So I've spent the last 3 weeks researching and have gotten close to a decision.
I have already purchased the Denon AVR-x4700h. (Replaced my Onkyo TX-NR656)
My current 5.1 is the Energy Take Classic 5.1 (total 500$ when purchased).

I am looking to first upgrade my front sound stage (L,C,R) + Sub. The Take Classic bookshelf speakers work quite well as satellites and Atmos and they will do until I get more money.
My budget is under 1500$. Unfortunately, I am in Japan where prices are much higher and availability is much lower. There are also no places to go and demo / listen to any home theater speakers in Okinawa. So based on research and (highly limited) available options I've been able to narrow my purchase options to the following:

Klipsch
R-610F
R-25C
R-12W
(Total Cost: 1110USD)

OR:

Polk Signature Elite
ES50
ES35 --could go with the ES30 {it is 100$ cheaper here}, but I hear the dialogue is clearer with the 35, and I can use crossover to reduce the distortion from the bass
R-12W (the PSW10 is only 50$ cheaper but I don't think it matches the ability of the R-12w)
(Total Cost: 1400USD)

OR:

JBL STAGE
A190
A125C
SUB A100P
(Total Cost: 1320USD)

I couldn't find much testing on these speakers.
Can someone give me their experience with these speakers? Or any comparison between the options?
NOTE: Please do not recommend other speakers, they are not an option based on price / availability here.

I would really appreciate any feedback. I posted on 2 other forums and haven't had any replies...

Thank you so much!!

 

[HeadDoc12]

I would say avoid the Klipsch. Between the other two options, I prefer JBL.

 

[mallow81]

I would say avoid the Klipsch. Between the other two options, I prefer JBL.

Thank you very much for your reply! Is there any reason in particular?
Why the JBL over the Signature Elite? Based on the price comparison (in US) the JBL is 'lower' than the Polk. -I know price isn't everything at this point, but as it goes "you get what you pay for".

 

[sweetchaos]

Welcome to ASR.

Klipsch:
R-610F = avoid due to 'Klipsch sound'. Here's RP-600M (not recommended). Here's R-41M (not recommended). Shows you how Klipsch doesn't care about accurate sound.
R-25C = avoid due to 'Klipsch sound'. Also, 2-way MTM, will have awful horizontal directivity.
R-12W = sub. Always pick the subwoofer, independent of speaker choice. Instead, look at my 'subwoofer comparison' spreadsheet to find the best subwoofer that's available in your area.

Polk:
We don't have spinorama for the new Polk ES series.
Previous to these ES series, the S series was measured.
Here's S15 (recommended by Amir). ES15 are their replacements.
Here's S30 (recommended by Amir). ES30 are their replacements.

JBL:
Here's Stage A130.
Here's A125C. Poor horizontal directivity performer due to 2-way MTM design.

I'd probably go with Polk ES series. I wouldn't get the 2-way MTM centers.
For Left-right, I would either get the tower or bookshelves.
For center, I would get a single bookshelf, to get the best sound off-axis (aka best horizontal directivity).

 

[mallow81]

Welcome to ASR.

Klipsch:
R-610F = avoid due to 'Klipsch sound'. Here's RP-600M (not recommended). Here's R-41M (not recommended). Shows you how Klipsch doesn't care about accurate sound.
R-25C = avoid due to 'Klipsch sound'. Also, 2-way MTM, will have awful horizontal directivity.
R-12W = sub. Always pick the subwoofer, independent of speaker choice. Instead, look at my 'subwoofer comparison' spreadsheet to find the best subwoofer that's available in your area.

Polk:
We don't have spinorama for the new Polk ES series.
Previous to these ES series, the S series was measured.
Here's S15 (recommended). ES15 are their replacements.
Here's S30 (recommended). ES30 are their replacements.

JBL:
Here's Stage A130.
Here's A125C. Poor horizontal directivity performer due to 2-way MTM design.

I'd probably go with Polk ES series. I wouldn't get the 2-way MTM centers.
For Left-right, I would either get the tower or bookshelves.
For center, I would get a single bookshelf, to get the best sound off-axis (aka best horizontal directivity).

Thank you very much for this!!
I went through your sub spreadsheet earlier this week. Unfortunately, the only sub available to me here that has measurements on there is the Klipsch R-12W. Which I feel is probably the best bet for me.

My room is a considered Small based on your Bassaholic rank.
I'm confused through because you say the Polk S30 is recommended but it is also an MTM center.

Also, I don't think I would be able to fit a bookshelf under the tv to keep it as a center.
I truly appreciate your time and comments!!
Also, I see SOO many home theaters having Klipsch on youtube... is the "klipsch sound" that bad?

I really really wish I could listen to them before I buy... Okinawa is a paradise, but there are some real drawbacks to being here.

 

[sweetchaos]

I'm confused through because you say the Polk S30 is recommended but it is also an MTM center.

Recommended due to good frequency response, but still has the same issue as other 2-way MTM speakers.
In other words, recommended only for the money seat (+-15 degrees of axis horizontally), otherwise not recommended.

Also, I see SOO many home theaters having Klipsch on youtube... is the "klipsch sound" that bad?

Basing your decision on youtube videos...your first mistake. But don't worry, we've set you on the right path.
Read both of Amir's Klipsch reviews and you'll understand why they aren't recommended.
TLDR: Awful frequency response + full of resonances = recipe for disaster.

 

[sweetchaos]

Can you provide links to a few Japanese resellers/stores?
I might be able to see some options that you've missed.

 

[sweetchaos]

Also, take a look at my 'passive speaker recommendations' thread if you haven't yet.

 

[mallow81]

Can you provide links to a few Japanese resellers/stores?
I might be able to see some options that you've missed.

Unfortunately, I am limited to Amazon Japan, Kakaku.com, and rakuten. There are no local stores anymore that sell these kinds of speakers. Everything has to come from online major shops. There are a few specialty sites in the mainland but then shipping is massive to Okinawa.

 

[mallow81]

Also, take a look at my 'passive speaker recommendations' thread if you haven't yet.

I noticed the Polk Monitor XT series is recommended on multiple fronts. Does that imply the more "quality" Signature Elite series should also be good? Or should I stick with the XT, cause those are available here and cheaper.

 

[sweetchaos]

Does that imply the more "quality" Signature Elite series should also be good?

In theory, yes the ES series should do better than cheaper XT series.
But without official spinorama I can't say definitively.

 

[sweetchaos]

Here's a few better speakers for your consideration:
Polk R100 (62000 jap yen = 530 usd)

Spoiler

Elac DBR62 (75000 jap yen = 650 usd)

Spoiler

Polk R200 (83000 jap yen = 715 usd)

Spoiler

Kef Q150 (49000 jap yen = 420usd).
Buy two, use one for center, then sell another.
Then rotate it 90degrees to act like a center channel.
This is much better than all 2-way center MTM channels, since Kef coaxial has great horizontal and vertical directivity.
Here's Q350 (slightly bigger than Q150), but same frequency response:

Spoiler

 

[mallow81]

Here's a few better speakers for your consideration:
Polk R100 (62000 jap yen = 530 usd)

Spoiler

Elac DBR62 (75000 jap yen = 650 usd)

Spoiler

Polk R200 (83000 jap yen = 715 usd)

Spoiler

Kef Q150 (49000 jap yen = 420usd).
Buy two, use one for center, then sell another.
Then rotate it 90degrees to act like a center channel.
This is much better than all 2-way center MTM channels, since Kef coaxial has great horizontal and vertical directivity.
Here's Q350 (slightly bigger than Q150), but same frequency response:

Spoiler

wow! Thank you for these suggestions.
Isn't is usually best that the front sound stage be of the same series / tone?

 

[sweetchaos]

Isn't is usually best that the front sound stage be of the same series / tone?

For a center channel, better horizontal directivity speakers are preferred (by majority of users at ASR) over timber-matched center channels (like most 2-way MTM).

Center Channel Timbre Matching vs Dispersion For Off Axis Listening

Do you feel it is more important that your center channel be timbre matched, i.e. from the same brand/model line as the mains, or would you rather have a center channel with a wide dispersion pattern so that off axis listeners can hear the center channel better. For example, if the model...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Here's what Sancus (user at ASR) said:

Your scenarios, in order of desirability are:
1) A speaker with identical on-axis FR and dispersion as the center(so, an upright bookshelf, or an identical coaxial like a Genelec 8351B as I have).
2) A speaker with good dispersion and reasonably close on-axis FR.
3) A speaker with good dispersion.
4) A speaker with poor dispersion and reasonably close on-axis FR.

I agree with this.

Which means that a speaker like Kef Q150 / Q350 (to be used for center channel) (with great horizontal/vertical directivity) is preferred over 2-way MTM centers (from Polk and others).

 

[f1shb0n3]

Isn't is usually best that the front sound stage be of the same series / tone?

After you calibrate with Audyssey and set the same target curve for LR and C their tonality (frequency response) will be closely matched and they will sound more similar than different. Still there will be differences, but detectable in A/B comparison while focusing on details, won't matter with content.

Directivity and wide radiation pattern of the center though is very important if you want non-primary listeners to hear dialogue well. Check out Erin's video about center channels.

 

[Beershaun]

Here is a great video on why the majority nof center channel speakers should be avoided.

Amir's work and Erin's work are uncovering how bad the typical center channel design actually is.

 

[mallow81]

For a center channel, better horizontal directivity speakers are preferred (by majority of users at ASR) over timber-matched center channels (like most 2-way MTM).

Center Channel Timbre Matching vs Dispersion For Off Axis Listening

Do you feel it is more important that your center channel be timbre matched, i.e. from the same brand/model line as the mains, or would you rather have a center channel with a wide dispersion pattern so that off axis listeners can hear the center channel better. For example, if the model...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Here's what Sancus (user at ASR) said:


I agree with this.

Which means that a speaker like Kef Q150 / Q350 (to be used for center channel) (with great horizontal/vertical directivity) is preferred over 2-way MTM centers (from Polk and others).

Thank you so much for taking the time to discuss this with me.
Is there a Horizontal Polar (Globe) Plot for the Kef Q150? I searched through erin's page and through ASR but couldn't find one. I can't find any evidence that the coaxial has good horizontal and vertical sound fields. I'm sure your suggesting it for a legitimate reason, but since everything else so far is research based, it follows that this should be as well.

 

[sonitus mirus]

Just playing a bit of defense, but if you can EQ the Klipsch speakers, you might want to keep them in the mix. They can be very capable speakers, generally speaking, if you can EQ them a bit. They don't mind a considerable amount of response alteration and they are efficient and can play at high volume levels without distortion.

 

[mallow81]

Just playing a bit of defense, but if you can EQ the Klipsch speakers, you might want to keep them in the mix. They can be very capable speakers, generally speaking, if you can EQ them a bit. They don't mind a considerable amount of response alteration and they are efficient and can play at high volume levels without distortion.

Thank you! I have the new Denon AVR-x4700h, so EQ is on the table.
I really understand everything they've said above and I'm still researching a lot, but I just see so many people with klipsch, it's difficult to believe they aren't good speakers.
I am highly considering the suggestions above (the Kef and Polk R-200, etc).
What area should be focused on the EQ for the klipsch? (reducing the highs?)

 

[sonitus mirus]

Thank you! I have the new Denon AVR-x4700h, so EQ is on the table.
I really understand everything they've said above and I'm still researching a lot, but I just see so many people with klipsch, it's difficult to believe they aren't good speakers.
I am highly considering the suggestions above (the Kef and Polk R-200, etc).
What area should be focused on the EQ for the klipsch? (reducing the highs?)

I think you can't go wrong with your Kef and Polk selections, as these are great. As for the Klipsch, my info is mostly anecdotal as I only have a pair of RP-280F speakers that I was able to measure with my UMIK-1 and consequently EQ to get decent results in my room for my taste, though it was positioning and placement that did the most for my particular situation. In the RP-600M link, there was an example of some EQ applied to an otherwise poor performing speaker that appeared to net a nice result.