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Great recordings of classical music

Robin L

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Just showed up today. The usual price at Ebay is quite a bargain at around $40, Amazon currently is $130. But there was a used copy, like new, at Ebay for $20 plus shipping and handling, $28 all told. To those who don't know these recordings from the 1930s, they are considered as among the greatest chamber music recordings of all time. I have owned them in various remasterings, going back many years. About half of the recordings were remastered in 2015, with some of the remastering work going as far back as 1987. The two CDs I've heard so far are remastered in 2006 (Schubert Quartets 14 & 15) and 2008 (Beethoven Quartets 12 & 14). I suspect this might be the last time these priceless recordings are remastered, though there's nothing to complain about the sound of the two discs I've heard so far considering they were recorded in the mid-1930s. If this sort of thing interests you it would probably a good time to buy a copy before this box of 16 CDs becomes collectible.

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Thank you for ^^^ this! I had only heard the Alban Berg version. Night and day difference!!! :)

Jim
 

Robin L

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Thank you for ^^^ this! I had only heard the Alban Berg version. Night and day difference!!! :)

Jim
The Alban Berg Quartet are quite a skilled group, but the Busch Quartet really lives in this music in a way no modern group can.
 

Hollywood_Bob

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Light to listen, nice music, well recorded

Thank you for this recommendation. I was not aware of it, and it is delightful. And thanks also for the link to presto music. I use it a lot to audition recordings
 

Hollywood_Bob

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I just found this thread, and I appreciate everyone's recommendations.

I'll start with: Satie: 3 Gymnopédies, with Pascal Roge'


It's one of my go to recordings when I am feeling stressed. I love how I can listen "into" the music. Great performance, great recording.
 

Hollywood_Bob

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A while ago, I decided to revisit some of my favourite composers, and instead of their larger compositions that I am familiar with, I would dig into their chamber music.

Debussy: Les Trois Sonates, The Late Works

Just wow. (well, for me anyway). Some of it has a jazz feel. Very unexpected. Picked up the disc from ebay for under $10 CAN, including shipping.

 
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Hollywood_Bob

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I had never really paid much attention to Granados, and am embarrassed to say that I unconsciously thought of him as a bit down the ladder from more prominant french composers.

Enrique Granados: Chamber Music with Piano. Trio Rodin

Very good performance, and I appreciate how the sound engineer succeeded in the placement of the piano, voilin and cello in 3 dimensional space. After all, they are piano sonatas, so the violin and the cello don't overshadow the piano, as I have encountered in other recordings.

Really changed my mind about Granados.

 

Robin L

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I just found this thread, and I appreciate everyone's recommendations.

I'll start with: Satie: 3 Gymnopédies, with Pascal Roge'


It's one of my go to recordings when I am feeling stressed. I love how I can listen "into" the music. Great performance, great recording.
A lovely performance/recording though easily mistaken for a new age production. For a contrasting, more angular performance, try Reinier de Leeuw's CDs:

R-1682647-1501174924-7073.jpg
 

Hollywood_Bob

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A lovely performance/recording though easily mistaken for a new age production. For a contrasting, more angular performance, try Reinier de Leeuw's CDs:

View attachment 348586
Thank you for this recommendation. I have listened to Pascal Roge's interpretation so many times over more than 40 years that it is embedded in my DNA. But, I took a dip into Reinbert De Leeuw's interpretations of Satie on Presto Music. I agree with one reviewer who described them as more contemplative, compared to the bouncier cafe-concert Satie, a description that leans a bit towards Roge's interpretation. I think Reinbert may be inducing a splicing of my DNA.
 

Descartes

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Some of my favorite



 

dualazmak

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Seiji OZAWA, rest in peace...

This afternoon, I am listening to this 2-CD album as a kind of requiem for him; really great and amazing performance and recording; with tears in my eyes...
Prokofiev:_Romeo and Juliet (complete), 423 268-2 DDD DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON.

SS_2024-02-10 174048.png
 
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Albertine

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A while ago, I decided to revisit some of my favourite composers, and instead of their larger compositions that I am familiar with, I would dig into their chamber music.

Debussy: Les Trois Sonates, The Late Works

Just wow. (well, for me anyway). Some of it has a jazz feel. Very unexpected. Picked up the disc from ebay for under $10 CAN, including shipping.

This is wonderful and has been a favourite cd since its release! I'm not one for definitive recordings, but it's tempting to describe it in that way.
 

Robin L

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I've been listening to a lot of the recordings in this fat box of CDs of Adolph Busch and the Busch Quartet. As regards composers, I've been focusing on Beethoven, Schubert & Brahms, all within the ensemble's wheelhouse, so this has been splendid as regards performance. The oldest transfer work is for the Schubert Piano Trio No. 2 in E flat major, D929. This was transferred in 1987. Can't say the sound quality is all that different from the bulk of the recordings in the box, perhaps a little tubbier, but the noise floor is about the same as most of the other recordings, that is to say very low. The Beethoven quartet recordings seem to have the lowest noise floor and best sound overall, they were transferred in 2008. Currently listening to the disc containing the Quartet No. 11 in F minor, the "Serioso" and No. 13 in B flat major. The sound quality of No.13 slips a tad, it was recorded in 1941 at Columbia's studios in New York. The ear quickly adjusts. In any case, the transfer work is excellent, the packaging minimal but otherwise fine. Strongly recommended to lovers of chamber music.

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Edit: The Weingartner arrangement of the Grosse Fuge has the worst sound (so far) in the set. However, I suspect it was "born that way".
 
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Robin L

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A Tale of Two CDs:
download.jpg


Beethoven_11_8110765.jpg


Warner Brothers currently has the rights to Artur Schnabel's EMI recordings from the 1930s and 1940s. When time came to reissue those recordings, WB chose to only reissue the piano sonatas. A pity as Schnabel also recorded the Piano Concerti and a considerable number of the other solo works for piano (along with the cello sonatas). Naxos reissued what they could, working from commercial copies remastered by Mark Obert-Thorn. The Warner Brothers issues were from the archives of EMI and the difference in sound quality is easy to spot.

The "Great Pianists" 2-CD set was issued by Philips from EMI's archives, includes the Diabelli Variations along with the Waldstein Sonata and the 4th Piano Concerto from EMI and a later recording of the sonatas #'s 30 & 32 from 1942 that were from RCA. The transfer quality is excellent.

Neither issue is still in print, as far as I can tell. I bought the "Great Pianists" 2 CD set decades ago. Schnabel's recording of the Diabelli Variations is my favorite, as he thoroughly expresses the quality of pure irritation in the score. Sad to say that the Naxos issue, which I only received this week, has a poor transfer of the Diabelli Variations compared to the Great Pianists issue. But that doesn't really affect me as I bought the Naxos disc for the OP 126 Bagatelles, Beethoven's last compositions for piano. These are fully developed Late-Period works, although they are all short in duration, the longest being shy of six minutes. That piece, the last of six bagatelles, is one of Beethoven's strangest compositions, starting off in a raging flurry of notes then, for most of the piece, basking in calm only to end as the work started. The disc also includes "Rondo a Capriccio" aka "Rage Over a Lost Penny" with the deceptively high op # of 129. It is a very early work, published towards the end of Beethoven's life.

I've waited decades to find a CD of this set of bagatelles. EBAY had a copy for slightly less than $8, shipping included. I feel lucky to have found this CD, the transfer work for the bagatelles is just fine. But I'm irritated that Warner Brothers did not reissue all of Schnabel's Beethoven recordings for EMI as they should have. These are historically and artistically important recordings, deserving of a better fate.
 
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Robin L

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I've owned/listened to a lot of recordings of Bruckner's 9th symphony. My favorite of all is Furtwängler's famous taping of 1944 with the Berlin Philharmonic and I was surprised at how "authentic" Harnoncourt's performance with the Vienna Philharmonic is (on an RCA SACD for those who are interested). Also had a fine recording featuring Gunter Wand directing the Berlin Philharmonic and now have a predictably mild-mannered rendering by Bernard Haitink with the Concertgebouw, digitally recorded in 1982. My first recording was the Carl Schuricht/VPO recording, back when it was offered as a $2 Seraphim budget reissue. It is one of the most characterful performances, with excellent sound. Managed to get the 2 SACD set back when SACDs were a "thing", some 10 years ago or so. I now realize the DSD part of the equation doesn't really matter, it's the quality of the remastering that really counts. The recording of the 9th symphony is coupled with a fine performance of Bruckner's 8th symphony, though the sound quality of that recording isn't quite as good, lacking depth.

WQZ8Pga.jpg
 

Keith_W

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We have two different performances of Mahler - Das Lied von Der Erde today.

image.png.8012e5423f640eca042015b027b8b638.png


The first is this BIS recording. I would normally skip it (unknown conductor, unknown soloist ... and Singapore no less, that cultureless, soulless theme park of a "country"). But I noticed something that piqued my interest - "sung in Chinese".

The original text of Das Lied featured poems by Li Bai, one of the most famous Chinese poets. These poems were translated from Chinese to German, which Mahler then discovered and used. He left hints of the Chinese context throughout the work, some of the flourishes are distinctly oriental and there is a Mandolin in the orchestra (most easily heard as the accompaniment to the soprano).

Li Bai was not from Canton (Guangdong), and he flourished during the Tang Dynasty. Strictly speaking, they should be singing in Sichuanese. But never mind.

All Chinese dialects are compact. It has fewer words and fewer syllables than Western languages. It is also tonal and depends on inflection to convey meaning. So how does it work in a Mahler song?

Answer: not very well. The singer has to stretch out words across multiple notes because Mahler composed in German. The Cantonese is barely intelligible (I speak Cantonese) because tone and inflection is lost. Granted, I am a bit more critical because I am trying to understand the singing. If you approached it without knowing Cantonese you would have different expectations.

What is great about this recording is the sound quality. It is astoundingly good. Everything is crystal clear, open, and realistic. And that unknown conductor actually does a good job of conveying the pathos of this work. And that unknown soloist is quite good as well, although his voice is a little brittle when he hits high notes - a sign he is trying to sing too loud and taking an operatic approach rather than a more intimate "Lieder" approach.

If you want a more intimate "Lieder" approach, listen to this:

image.png.3f7f408bc888a8e2fed35db2be1f2b0e.png


This is an old recording (from 1959) but it is new to me. I am more familiar with his collaboration with Bernstein (1966) or the one with the amazing Fritz Wunderlich and Josef Krips. Fischer-Dieskau has a more intimate, more "Lieder" approach, and this is emphasized by the amazing recording, which sounds like a modern recording. He sounds like he is in the room with you, with the orchestra thrown further back. Fischer-Dieskau is always consistent and has the right amount of emotion and restraint. More restraint than Julius Patzak (who really does sing his heart out) but that's up to your taste.

I have said time and again that lieder is not opera. The emphasis is on the song, the poetry, and the meaning of the words. It usually in an intimate setting - piano, singer, that's it. It is not about expressing drama with colourful costumes and elaborate stage sets in a large opera hall where you have to sing loudly to be heard. So I think the singing has to be different - it needs to be more intimate, with better diction, and not screaming your lungs out. This is at least true for Schubert lieder, but I have found more Mahler and Richard Strauss lieder to be sung in an operatic style. I suppose this is because they have orchestral accompaniments, although the orchestra is usually used as a very large ensemble to supply many different tone colours (Mahler) or to create lushness (Strauss) rather than overwhelming power. I was wondering if other lieder lovers have an opinion on how lieder should be sung?
 

dualazmak

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Oh,,, let me join you.;)

I still very much like and love the amazing collaboration of Otto Klemperer and Christa Ludwig on Brahms, Wagner and Mahler recorded in 1962.
This is remastered CD release TOCE-13219 Toshiba - EMI:
WS00007071.JPG

I have this CD as well as the original vinyl LP.

Actually even though I have several disks (CDs and LPs) of Brahms Alto Rhapsody and Wagner Wesendonk Lieder, I always come back to this one after all...
 

Daverz

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I was wondering if other lieder lovers have an opinion on how lieder should be sung?

I believe Mahler conceived Das Lied von der Erde as a symphony. It's definitely not meant to be sung like Schubert Lieder, though the orchestration is often chamber-like.

The conductor Lan Shui made many excellent recordings in Singapore for Bis.

The Kletzki Mahler 4 coupled with the Das Lied is still one of the best recordings of that work.
 

Robin L

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We have two different performances of Mahler - Das Lied von Der Erde today.

image.png.8012e5423f640eca042015b027b8b638.png


The first is this BIS recording. I would normally skip it (unknown conductor, unknown soloist ... and Singapore no less, that cultureless, soulless theme park of a "country"). But I noticed something that piqued my interest - "sung in Chinese".

The original text of Das Lied featured poems by Li Bai, one of the most famous Chinese poets. These poems were translated from Chinese to German, which Mahler then discovered and used. He left hints of the Chinese context throughout the work, some of the flourishes are distinctly oriental and there is a Mandolin in the orchestra (most easily heard as the accompaniment to the soprano).

Li Bai was not from Canton (Guangdong), and he flourished during the Tang Dynasty. Strictly speaking, they should be singing in Sichuanese. But never mind.

All Chinese dialects are compact. It has fewer words and fewer syllables than Western languages. It is also tonal and depends on inflection to convey meaning. So how does it work in a Mahler song?

Answer: not very well. The singer has to stretch out words across multiple notes because Mahler composed in German. The Cantonese is barely intelligible (I speak Cantonese) because tone and inflection is lost. Granted, I am a bit more critical because I am trying to understand the singing. If you approached it without knowing Cantonese you would have different expectations.

What is great about this recording is the sound quality. It is astoundingly good. Everything is crystal clear, open, and realistic. And that unknown conductor actually does a good job of conveying the pathos of this work. And that unknown soloist is quite good as well, although his voice is a little brittle when he hits high notes - a sign he is trying to sing too loud and taking an operatic approach rather than a more intimate "Lieder" approach.

If you want a more intimate "Lieder" approach, listen to this:

image.png.3f7f408bc888a8e2fed35db2be1f2b0e.png


This is an old recording (from 1959) but it is new to me. I am more familiar with his collaboration with Bernstein (1966) or the one with the amazing Fritz Wunderlich and Josef Krips. Fischer-Dieskau has a more intimate, more "Lieder" approach, and this is emphasized by the amazing recording, which sounds like a modern recording. He sounds like he is in the room with you, with the orchestra thrown further back. Fischer-Dieskau is always consistent and has the right amount of emotion and restraint. More restraint than Julius Patzak (who really does sing his heart out) but that's up to your taste.

I have said time and again that lieder is not opera. The emphasis is on the song, the poetry, and the meaning of the words. It usually in an intimate setting - piano, singer, that's it. It is not about expressing drama with colourful costumes and elaborate stage sets in a large opera hall where you have to sing loudly to be heard. So I think the singing has to be different - it needs to be more intimate, with better diction, and not screaming your lungs out. This is at least true for Schubert lieder, but I have found more Mahler and Richard Strauss lieder to be sung in an operatic style. I suppose this is because they have orchestral accompaniments, although the orchestra is usually used as a very large ensemble to supply many different tone colours (Mahler) or to create lushness (Strauss) rather than overwhelming power. I was wondering if other lieder lovers have an opinion on how lieder should be sung?
I first heard Das Lied von der Erde via Bruno Walter's three "official" recordings. My sense, from those recordings, is that Mahler called it a song-cycle out of superstition. It's really more of a symphony built upon songs. I have heard the Fischer-Dieskau/Leonard Bernstein VPO recording but kept going back to Walter's renditions, in particular the version with Kathleen Ferrier and Julius Patzak. I also have the Fritz Reiner/Maureen Forester/Richard Lewis version with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, a performance notable for its "coolth". This is one of the best sounding "Living Stereo" recordings in the RCA/BMG SACD reissue series.

I'm coming from a "Historically Informed Performance Practice" perspective. The music of Mahler and Strauss would be performed with large orchestras in large venues, whereas Schubert's songs would be performed in more intimate spaces with smaller forces. And of course, music evolves over time.
 

Daverz

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I first heard Das Lied von der Erde via Bruno Walter's three "official" recordings. My sense, from those recordings, is that Mahler called it a song-cycle out of superstition. It's really more of a symphony built upon songs. I have heard the Fischer-Dieskau/Leonard Bernstein VPO recording but kept going back to Walter's renditions, in particular the version with Kathleen Ferrier and Julius Patzak. I also have the Fritz Reiner/Maureen Forester/Richard Lewis version with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, a performance notable for its "coolth". This is one of the best sounding "Living Stereo" recordings in the RCA/BMG SACD reissue series.

The two recordings I tend to pull out for listening are Baker/King/Haitink and Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer.
 
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