SoundAndMotion
Active Member
Sell? No. (Is anyone selling dither?)
If you have free advice, like "check this box, not that one, when editing", sure, I'd like to hear your advice.
For me, "snake oil" implies someone making a profit.
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Is Dithering Ever Needed?
- Thread starter 1231rq32r1qw32r
- Start date
If you have free advice, like "check this box, not that one, when editing", sure, I'd like to hear your advice.
For me, "snake oil" implies someone making a profit.
Agreed. Also, dither is useful under some circumstances and can become audible, especially when using certain DSP (digital volume or EQ). 192k audio will never be in the same category, so if dither is Snake Oil, then maybe hi-res audio should be Extra Virgin Snake Oil?
DSJR
Major Contributor
Please would you borrow or buy the disc and check for yourself. Maybe I have it totally wrong, but don't dismiss my comments without checking first - please...
charleski
Major Contributor
You said, "I’m wondering if dithering is ever needed at all." and the title of the thread is "Is Dithering Ever Needed?" The answer is yes.
If you asked, "Can people hear the effect of a single truncation on a full-range digital signal?" The answer would be no, in most cases that will be inaudible. But this is a very different question that glosses over many elements of digital reproduction.
Here's what Mark Donahue (a recording engineer with experience reaching back to the late '50s) has to say about dither:
"This may just be me, but I I have the sneaking suspicion that most of the people that are saying dither doesn't matter weren't working in the early days of digital when Sony PCM-1600 and 1610 masters were being made on DAE-1100's without dither.
I'll never forget the eye-opening experience of listening to F1 recordings we made as back-ups to the 1610 that sounded MUCH better than the master. The difference was Dither."
^this^ Totally makes sens in an 80s era with 16 bit and nice recordings.
The loudness wars (compressed) ‘modernmusic is 180 degrees away from classical.
Both @Frank Dernie and @charleski posts that seem sound. As well as others.
I have a related question. Is it possible to hear a difference between a 16 bit dithered file and a 24 bit file of the same recording? All thing else the same.
charleski
Major Contributor
I think this has been covered in other threads here. But the research I linked earlier compared 24bit audio with dithered and truncated 16bit versions and couldn’t show an audible difference.
You've been here since Aug 2020 and you really still believe that's sufficient?
Dither is pretty much free and allows ADC or DAC to perform better than it would otherwise. Maybe it is not necessary even for redbook but why wouldn't you want to use it? Do you see some downside or do you just have disdain for better performance than necessary?
[since the title says "Ever Needed"] Of course there are many applications besides audio. I use a form of dither with a DAC that is integrated into a mixed signal processor. This allows our sensor's analog output to have greater resolution that the cheap 12 bit DAC would otherwise give us.
from https://www.analog.com/media/en/tec...362-363-Hardware-Reference-Manual-UG-1048.pdf
DAC Interpolation Mode, DACCON[3] = 1 In interpolation mode, a higher DAC output resolution of 16 bits, with approximately 14 effective bits, is achieved with a longer update rate than normal mode. The update rate is controlled by the interpolation clock rate and is set in DACCON[2]. In this mode, an external RC filter is required to create a constant voltage. Due to the external filter and slower update rate, the bandwidth of the DAC in this mode is lower.
[since the title says "Ever Needed"] Of course there are many applications besides audio. I use a form of dither with a DAC that is integrated into a mixed signal processor. This allows our sensor's analog output to have greater resolution that the cheap 12 bit DAC would otherwise give us.
from https://www.analog.com/media/en/tec...362-363-Hardware-Reference-Manual-UG-1048.pdf
DAC Interpolation Mode, DACCON[3] = 1 In interpolation mode, a higher DAC output resolution of 16 bits, with approximately 14 effective bits, is achieved with a longer update rate than normal mode. The update rate is controlled by the interpolation clock rate and is set in DACCON[2]. In this mode, an external RC filter is required to create a constant voltage. Due to the external filter and slower update rate, the bandwidth of the DAC in this mode is lower.
