Is Nad c399 ok for subwoofer integration?

[valcon]

Dear ASR community, I'm a new member. Most of the time I listen to music from Qobuz, with my integrated streaming amplifier Yamaha R-N803D, feeding a pair of Kef LS50 Meta and the active subwoofer Kef KC62. I've been thinking of upgrading to Nad c399, but I'm not fully convinced and I shall explain why.

I consider the subwoofer integration of the Yamaha its main strength: the Ypao calibration automatically detects the distance of the listening point from both speakers and from the subwoofer, adjusting the phase and delay accordingly. The result is very good in my opinion. On the other hand I'm not happy with how Ypao as a room correction software. For this reason I always switch its automatic equalisation off.

Nad c399 has lots of strengths in comparison, many of which I read in previous threads on this forum. Still, I'm a bit skeptical about its bass management. As far as I understand, the Bluos module only enables you to set the crossover. Then Dirac Live calibration is not able to discriminate between speakers and subwoofer. It does its room compensation as if there were two full range speakers. Is it correct? Doesn't this determine a suboptimal integration of the subwoofer not providing for a proper phase and time alignment? As far as bass management goes, doesn't the Nad represent a downgrade from the Yamaha? I'm aware that almost every other aspect is better implemented on the Nad than on the Yamaha, and that Dirac is way better than Ypao. Here I'm only asking about bass management.

Thank you for reading and helping me sorting out this matter.

 

[dako]

I've the NAD M33 so it should be same. The M33 recognise my subwoofer as its on channel and are setting separate room correction and impulse to time align the speaker to the subwoofer. There is no phase alignment tough. Im satisfied with the sound and the measurement is objectively good. I had the Lyngdorf 1120 earlier and like its DSP better because you could fine adjust much better.

 

[valcon]

Thank you for sharing your experience. That was really helpful.

Yes, I too believe the c399 should behave as the M33. Has it always worked like that or has something changed after some update? If I don't go wrong, when Dirac released Bass Control, allegedly the Stereo version of Dirac live was given the ability to do the bass management for one sub.

You don't regret moving from Lyngdorf to M33, do you?

 

[tc2007]

I cannot imagine Dirac live not properly applying corrections to the low end, and also not separately identifying the subwoofer. When I had Dirac enabled products, I would always see my sub as a separately identified speaker. Dirac does come with different licensed products and I am not sure which one comes with C399. I think it's best to contact Dirac or NAD product support regarding bass management. I am almost sure, your concerns are already cleared in C399 but best to check with them before pulling the trigger.

 

[valcon]

I cannot imagine Dirac live not properly applying corrections to the low end, and also not separately identifying the subwoofer. When I had Dirac enabled products, I would always see my sub as a separately identified speaker. Dirac does come with different licensed products and I am not sure which one comes with C399. I think it's best to contact Dirac or NAD product support regarding bass management. I am almost sure, your concerns are already cleared in C399 but best to check with them before pulling the trigger.

Thank you for your kind reply. I will contact NAD and Dirac, hoping they might help me clarify my thoughts. The reason I was doubtful is that, if C399 had a proper bass management, I could not figure out what the advantage of Dirac Live Bass Control over Dirac Live Stereo (the one on C399) might be in a 2.1 scenario. For sure DLBC is superior when it comes to multiple subs, but does this hold true for a just-one-sub setup?

 

[Willem]

If you are after better bass, I would suggest you consider getting a second sub and use Multi Sub Optimizer and a miniDSP 2x4HD for sub equalization. I doubt there is anything better. The biggest advantage of this approach would be that you optimize the response over a rather larger listening area. A second sub will also give you more low end power.

 

[Baund007]

Reading this thread I have a bass management question. I have a C399 and I'm baffled. I am enabling 1 sub via BluOS or front panel. Setting the crossover to 40 or 50. Why is bass management also crossing the full signal to the speakers? I get the concept but when you have full-range speakers I want 100% of the signal to go there when also have full range to sub and let that crossover handle. You can hear a huge difference pushing the cross up 80+. The speaker's frequency is just getting neutered. Moved the sub to Pre Out and disabled sub on the front panel. The speaker & sub has normal output. However, when I go back into bass management, enable 1 sub, and push crossover up again it does the same to the speakers, as expected, but also kills the sub through the pre-out. So it appears there is no way to disable bass management. Why would you design something like that? Any insight would be helpful.

 

[DVDdoug]

I get the concept but when you have full-range speakers I want 100% of the signal to go there when also have full range to sub and let that crossover handle.

Normally a crossover splits the frequencies and the drivers only overlap around the crossover point and the lowest frequencies don't go to your main speakers.

If you have a 2-way speaker (or 3-way) speaker it has a crossover inside and if you add a separate woofer/subwoofer with the appropriate additional crossover you now have a 3-way (or-way) system, etc.

Most active subs have a low-pass filter (half of a crossover). Some have line-level pass-through with high pass for your main amplifier/speakers.

Bass management is a crossover, plus it allows mixing of the regular bass and the "point one" LFE channel for the sub. If you have an AVR you can set it for full-range speakers and then crossover is not used. The normal stereo (and surround channel) bass goes only to the regular speakers and only the LFE goes to the sub (there is no crossover).

The stereo downmix doesn't include the LFE, and I assume the NAD can't decode surround sound so it probably can't decode the LFE.