KEF Reference and Blade Meta announced, but where is the R Meta?????

[Jukebox]

I'd like to see the second party or third party, or even first party measurements of KEFs, with PROPER graphs though.

We will soon have measurements of the Ref Meta...just a matter of time

 

[YSC]

I hope you guys realize you're just feeding a troll.

yea I got that part and gave up reasoning with him, not actually pointing at potential problem or drawbacks or even what "normalized" graphs will look like. Definitely not someone who can communicate witih logic

 

[TimVG]

That's why I am saying an un-normalized polar plot is an inappropriate and maybe an evil way to show directivity.

It also shows what's happening in reality since no loudspeaker is perfectly flat. Normalised plots have their use for development but, imo, it is not the end-all.



PS: a little modesty wouldn't hurt you

 

[Crosstalk]

It also shows what's happening in reality since no loudspeaker is perfectly flat. Normalised plots have their use for development but, imo, it is not the end-all.



PS: a little modesty wouldn't hurt you

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All this and he himself is complaining about a well engineered product like kef is ridiculous

 

[MarkWinston]

You are mind-bogglingly bad at explaining what you're trying to say.

Of course the LS50 Meta has incredibly good directivity - it's an isolated Uni-Q in a custom minimal-compromise single-Uni-Q enclosure. I'd expect it to be right up there with the Reference and Blade.

It's trading off frequency response and low-end distortion to get that...

Do you think that a larger cabinet than the Meta's would benefit the Uni-Q?

 

[KMO]

Do you think that a larger cabinet than the Meta's would benefit the Uni-Q?

My understanding is that the primary wins for the LS 50 Meta are not having any woofers to worry about, so no extra interference, and having the curved baffle to effectively hide its edges from diffraction effects.

So in that regard the LS50 Meta is conceptually closer to the Blade, but that extends the curvature further - there is no edge. (The Reference does the edge hiding via the shadow flare.)

I would expect a larger cabinet - extending the curvature - to help. But looking at the LS50 Meta's vertical and horizontal plots, it's hard to say whether the vertical dispersion with the longer curvature is better. (Maybe being long on one axis doesn't help in isolation that much?)

Edit: (Or am I confused? I now recall that at least for flat baffles, having the edge closer to the speaker is beneficial, which is why they favour small woofers to keep the width down for R series and Reference. Not sure how that works for curved baffles like the LS50.)

 

[Mnyb]

Wonder how normalised to intended listen axis would look like ? Like 15 degre off ?
As someone else said kef’s engineering compromise with the tangerine wg is some anomaly exactly on axis , to keep the rest smoother . It would look equally wrong to normalise to that axis .

Hence non normalised , ie every curve is it’s own fr is actually easier to understand . Otherwise if the exact on axis has an anomaly, and then you normalise . It will show in every other curve instead and will be harder to filter out mentally to get the whole picture.

One can understand that the other major coaxial speaker builder , Genelec act a bit differently. It’s not uncommon to point the speakers exactly on axis in a studio , so greater care there .

They are both better than any other coax speakers I’ve ever heard of . The “others” seem to always show off some uneven response somewhere . But still prefer to do coax .

Any science done in an easy accessible format . On the reasons to prefer a coaxial or other piont source solution , the solution pops up now and then in the history of audio. But done well with the weaknesses dealt with seems to be very current last decade or so .

 

[YSC]

Wonder how normalised to intended listen axis would look like ? Like 15 degre off ?
As someone else said kef’s engineering compromise with the tangerine wg is some anomaly exactly on axis , to keep the rest smoother . It would look equally wrong to normalise to that axis .

Hence non normalised , ie every curve is it’s own fr is actually easier to understand . Otherwise if the exact on axis has an anomaly, and then you normalise . It will show in every other curve instead and will be harder to filter out mentally to get the whole picture.

One can understand that the other major coaxial speaker builder , Genelec act a bit differently. It’s not uncommon to point the speakers exactly on axis in a studio , so greater care there .

They are both better than any other coax speakers I’ve ever heard of . The “others” seem to always show off some uneven response somewhere . But still prefer to do coax .

Any science done in an easy accessible format . On the reasons to prefer a coaxial or other piont source solution , the solution pops up now and then in the history of audio. But done well with the weaknesses dealt with seems to be very current last decade or so .

Yea, and don't forget Genelec the Ones have been always a DSP speaker, where I believe, and that's why I appreciate the Blade so much, doing a passive this good is kind of insane to my imagination. and just saying, if I am to choose, in a floor stander and no DSP I would say the KEF approach should work best for most, as your common use case you would be in a HT/Hifi setup, with a sofa in the LP and possibly some guests walk by, where off axis dominates the most likely listening position, in studio and close range pointing the speaker at the perfect level and on axis would be more important.

and TBH even the "disasterous" on axis caused by the Tangrine WG by KEF don't look really bad to myself. Just less perfect.

 

[Zvu]

Do you think that a larger cabinet than the Meta's would benefit the Uni-Q?

Using two Ikea Blanda bowls making a sphere would benefit LS50Meta Uni-Q the most, in my opinion. It would measure the same off-axis regardless if it is horizontal, vertical or diagonal. Other benefits of spheric cabinet are multiplying; no diffraction other than baffle step, no need for struts because sphere reinforces itself, no parallel sides, standing wave happening only at one frequency to deal with, greatly reduced reflected sound leakage through speaker cone.

28cm diameter Bowl itself is made out of thick LBL (laminated bamboo lumber) so tuff as hell, durable and rigid.

 

[MarkWinston]

Using two Ikea Blanda bowls making a sphere would benefit LS50Meta Uni-Q the most, in my opinion. It would measure the same off-axis regardless if it is horizontal, vertical or diagonal. Other benefits of spheric cabinet are multiplying; no diffraction other than baffle step, no need for struts because sphere reinforces itself, no parallel sides, standing wave happening only on one frequency to deal with, greatly reduced РЕФЛЕЦТЕД sound leakage through speaker cone.

28cm diameter Bowl itself is made out of thick LBL (laminated bamboo lumber) so tuff as hell, durable and rigid.

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Thanks to your post, Ikea will be out of Blanda bowls by tomorrow night. Ikea wouldnt know what hit them.

 

[Mnyb]

Using two Ikea Blanda bowls making a sphere would benefit LS50Meta Uni-Q the most, in my opinion. It would measure the same off-axis regardless if it is horizontal, vertical or diagonal. Other benefits of spheric cabinet are multiplying; no diffraction other than baffle step, no need for struts because sphere reinforces itself, no parallel sides, standing wave happening only at one frequency to deal with, greatly reduced reflected sound leakage through speaker cone.

28cm diameter Bowl itself is made out of thick LBL (laminated bamboo lumber) so tuff as hell, durable and rigid.

View attachment 187990View attachment 187991

There have been various attempts at spherical enclosure. It works acoustically. but it’s hard sell on the market . The look is not super popular

 

[Zvu]

Ya think ? Lemme continue throwing ideas.

Make circular slots on Blanda arround Uni-Q and add some felt for cardioid response in all directions. Put it on a stand made out of 25-30cm Sonotube with 8" woofer on top of it. Mount the sphere on top of it offseting it 2-3cm from woofer cone and by that you're creating a slot. Now slot loading will add few dB's and you've made acoustic filter at higher frequencies for 8" woofer and crossover will utilize fewer parts (or just go DSP active and destroy 99% of existing loudspeakers). Cross it at 200Hz with Blanded Meta Uni-Q and enjoy

 

[MarkWinston]

I would buy a Uni-Q stuffed in Blanda bowls! A talk piece for sure.

Friend : Wtf are those???
Me : Sit down, stfu and listen.

 

[Eetu]

Using two Ikea Blanda bowls making a sphere would benefit LS50Meta Uni-Q the most, in my opinion. It would measure the same off-axis regardless if it is horizontal, vertical or diagonal. Other benefits of spheric cabinet are multiplying; no diffraction other than baffle step, no need for struts because sphere reinforces itself, no parallel sides, standing wave happening only at one frequency to deal with, greatly reduced reflected sound leakage through speaker cone.

28cm diameter Bowl itself is made out of thick LBL (laminated bamboo lumber) so tuff as hell, durable and rigid.

View attachment 187990View attachment 187991

@Juhazi DIY'd a Gradient 1.4 clone using this Ikea bowl

SEAS MR18 3-way

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/319984-seas-7-inch-coaxial-midrange-crossover-2.html#post5415661 So, now I have a pair of MR18 in my hands! My plan is to make a semiactive 3-way using it and SB29NRX woofers, floorstanding sealed box and minidsp PowerICE-125 amplifier-dsp boards. Here...

www.diyaudio.com

 

[Ron Texas]

Where did you get this info from?

From God's mouth...

 

[Mnyb]

I would buy a Uni-Q stuffed in Blanda bowls! A talk piece for sure.

Friend : Wtf are those???
Me : Sit down, stfu and listen.

Do not turn off the music they will be out if you do

 

[Zvu]

@Juhazi DIY'd a Gradient 1.4 clone using this Ikea bowl

And Bushmeister with Balls of Prestige and Sphere synergy horn.

Comparison of 'Xbush Sphere synergy horn', versus 'Balls of Prestige'.

I thought I owed it to those involved in two of my larger builds to give a longer term review of these two speakers having lived with them for a few years, and over the last few weeks having done level matched, sighted and unsighted AB comparisons (which was hard work but fun!). If you are...

www.diyaudio.com

But none of those uses great coaxial as Uni-Q from LS50 Meta is, and none in cardioid configuration i mentioned with slot loaded woofer (Cabasse la Sphere perhaps). I'd really like to do it (or see someone else do it). I personally just lack a little bit of money to source a pair of LS50 Meta coax. Other stuff i can manage

 

[thewas]

28cm diameter Bowl itself is made out of thick LBL (laminated bamboo lumber) so tuff as hell, durable and rigid.

By far not rigid enough for a bass transducer without significant reinforcment ribs, so not really a comparison to the engineering quality of the LS50 enclosures (FEM optimised damped ribs) without significant advantages compared to them with their rounded front baffles. Many DIYs here in Germany use them, they are ok for quick, fun, small and cheap projects but not more.

 

[Zvu]

By far not rigid enough for a bass transducer without significant reinforcment ribs, so not really a comparison to the engineering quality of the LS50 enclosures (FEM optimised damped ribs) without significant advantages compared to them with their rounded front baffles. Many DIYs here in Germany use them, they are ok for quick, fun, small and cheap projects but not more.

You would have to compare accelerator measurements between the two to be able to make a conclusion that it is not as good as LS50 cabinet (that really needs FEM optimisation and damped ribs since it has parallel sides, unlike a sphere).

 

[thewas]

You would have to compare accelerator measurements between the two to be able to make a conclusion that it is not as good as LS50 cabinet (that really needs FEM optimisation and damped ribs since it has parallel sides, unlike a sphere).

I don't as I have had both here and there is no comparison, just tap on both. Also a sphere needs ribs, the modes have just a different direction, the thin IKEA material cannot compensate the form advantage. But if you build a loudspeaker with them you can send it to me, I have at work access to professional 3-axis accelerator sensors so I could do some comparison sweeps on both LS50 and them.