KZ Castor Harman Target IEM Review

[solderdude]

@solderdude Have you tested the Shure SE-846?

I don't test/measure IEMs nor use them.
1: I don't like the pressure inside my ear canal (needed to get a good seal)
2: I don't like the idea that my earwax, that my ear naturally wants to expel, is pushed back in every time I insert them.
Sure they are small, no 'hot' ears, cheap (in general) and have decent to good performance but ... I simply don't like IEMs.

To properly measure them you need more than a simple mic capsule and a piece of tube and aside from measurements I would also have to evaluate the sound.

AFAIK pro's use Custom IEM's and don't think many of them will be using $ 10 to 40 IEMs unless they really have to.
For singers and other artists they are solely used as monitors (and isolate pretty well on stage) and don't have to be really hi-fi, they just have to be good in the vocal range.

At $ 1100.- they aren't really cheap either. I don't think I will ever fork out that much for an ear-phone. Even for regular headphones that would be about the max I would be ever willing to spend on one.

 

[USER]

It's funny, the tweet is from 6 months ago, but time in the IEM market goes so fast, I already consider them not competetive. It looks like "muddy" upper bass / lower midrange and bit spiky treble.

It's the typical JBL "sports" curve with a lot of bass. I too don't think the FR looks great but, honestly, they sound pretty good. I prefer boosted bass over boosted highs like in the Truthear x Crinacle Zeros. Can't use them for all music, however. Regardless, they are popular here because Dr. Olive provided an EQ for them and it's cool to have "official" Harman EQ'd IEMs from Mr. Harman curve himself. To be able to try that for $15 when they are on sale is neat. They sound great to me with it and that is the way I use them.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1721699086821417290

 

[Chyżwar]

If an IEM like the Shure below, helps a producer create a mix that translates well to "other systems", that means it is a neutral monitoring IEM and sounds good on loudspeakers and headphones and in a live situation. But we know headphones that follow the Harman-curve are far from neutral or accurate.

Studio monitors are used to mix music. Headphones are just an additional tool and you can use literally any headphones in the studio as long as you have reference monitors. So the term "studio headphones" means nothing

The SE846 are a stage monitor, and they are very expensive and not worth the price. Their main advantage is good comfort and great isolation, in this respect they are miles ahead of most Chinese IEMs.

 

[IAtaman]

Seriously? Nah, you're just kidding, right?

Is there a headphone you find most natural and accurate?

 

[CedarX]

But we know headphones that follow the Harman-curve are far from neutral or accurate.

We do? How do we know that?

A fair question…

I would agree with @restorer-john if stated that way: “But we I know headphones that follow the Harman-curve are far from neutral or accurate for me.”

As measured by Oratory, the SE846 is not too far from the Harman in-ear 2019 target, and pretty close to something like the Thruthear Zero:Red.

 

[Kennyknetter]

Too much distortion in a sensitive region. Thanks for the review.

Actually, the distorsion is fine.

Compare 40hz to 1000hz below. The graph is a spectum analysis of a track from just about every genre of music that I had on my computer. The actual music content at 40hz runs about 24db hotter than at 1000hz. So, if you look at the 94db distorsion measurement for the midrange and the 114db one for bass, you'd be closer to a distorsion reading that sort of emulates a (loud but not LOOUUD) real world usage scenario. You should end up below 0.5% distorsion basically across the range, with maybe a peak above 0.5% around 4-500hz for this particular IEM, with loud but not super loud listening levels.

Actually, @amirm , could a distorsion measurement with a signal filtered through an eq that mimics the graph below be included in the future? It could be very useful!

 

[markanini]

Actually, the distorsion is fine.

Compare 40hz to 1000hz below. The graph is a spectum analysis of a track from just about every genre of music that I had on my computer. The actual music content at 40hz runs about 24db hotter than at 1000hz. So, if you look at the 94db distorsion measurement for the midrange and the 114db one for bass, you'd be closer to a distorsion reading that sort of emulates a (loud but not LOOUUD) real world usage scenario. You should end up below 0.5% distorsion basically across the range, with maybe a peak above 0.5% around 4-500hz for this particular IEM, with loud but not super loud listening levels.

Actually, @amirm , could a distorsion measurement with a signal filtered through an eq that mimics the graph below be included in the future? It could be very useful!

View attachment 368409

You would need to factor more than that to model audibility of distortion. Firstly hearing sensitivity rises in an opposite direction peaking at 3 kHz. While it's input dependent, generally with test tones even an untrained listener will be able to identify distortion products of 2-6% between 500-3kHz Like Castor Silver has. One might counter that with real music it's not as audible, but ultimately when budget 2DD IEMs exist with max 0.5% distortion KZ doesn't impress.

 

[CedarX]

You need to factor more than that to model audibility of distortion. Firstly hearing sensitivity rises in an opposite direction peaking at 3 kHz. Generally with test tones even an untrained listener will be able to identify distortion products of 2-6% between 500-3kHz.

One might counter that with real music the it's not as audible, but ultimately when budget 2DD IEMs exist with max 0.5% distortion KZ doesn't impress.

In addition, @Kennyknetter data is an "average/aggregated" view. I don't think distortion always works that way: sometimes, it's the distortion of a specific peak that I notice even if, on average, distortion is not noticeable.

Coming back to the Castor (I own both the "Harman" and "Bass" versions), I did not notice distortion as being a problem... But it was based on casual listening.
The various switch combinations settings did not really deliver for me: not enough or not the right adjustments for me. I still prefer the (good) entry-level-IEM + DSP cable approach, but the Castor QDC-type connector is not my preferred choice.

 

[Robbo99999]

I have a pair that I can ship out to Amir if he wants them. But in all likelihood only the impedance measurements will add insight to info already out there. Sean Olive measured them with the same GRAS 45CA-10 system as Amir's. My own results pretty much match his, which shows great manufacturing consistency.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1721692088436478016

View attachment 368332View attachment 368334
My distortion measurements aren't precise but they should be good enough to show issues. They look OK to me at 94 dB (450Hz).
View attachment 368335

Again, if Amir wants to measure them, I can ship them out ASAP.

(he may not read your message, so you might be better off sending him a PM to see if he'd like to measure it).

 

[375HP2482]

Similar to calibrated monitors being too bright or lifeless to some, accurate might not be "wow" to everyone's ears.

I use an EQ app on my Pixel 3a for any of them. Even makes the cheap Panasonics pretty good.

My fave right now is the Tanchjim One. I like its compact, straightforward form. Panasonics, Salnotes, Tanchim -- I'm all set with IEMs.

 

[TheHighContemplator]

Actually, the distorsion is fine.

Compare 40hz to 1000hz below. The graph is a spectum analysis of a track from just about every genre of music that I had on my computer. The actual music content at 40hz runs about 24db hotter than at 1000hz. So, if you look at the 94db distorsion measurement for the midrange and the 114db one for bass, you'd be closer to a distorsion reading that sort of emulates a (loud but not LOOUUD) real world usage scenario. You should end up below 0.5% distorsion basically across the range, with maybe a peak above 0.5% around 4-500hz for this particular IEM, with loud but not super loud listening levels.

Actually, @amirm , could a distorsion measurement with a signal filtered through an eq that mimics the graph below be included in the future? It could be very useful!

I'm not purchasing a product when other, similarly priced, products have better performance. My hearing measures very well, and I'd rather not have the potential to hear noise that is not part of the source material. Others may feel differently. This is why I love ASR.

 

[Kennyknetter]

You would need to factor more than that to model audibility of distortion. Firstly hearing sensitivity rises in an opposite direction peaking at 3 kHz. While it's input dependent, generally with test tones even an untrained listener will be able to identify distortion products of 2-6% between 500-3kHz Like Castor Silver has. One might counter that with real music it's not as audible, but ultimately when budget 2DD IEMs exist with max 0.5% distortion KZ doesn't impress.

It's still a non issue though, which is good because this IEM costs less than half of the one that you linked to. Also, Amir usually mentions distortion in the review if he can hear it, and this time he didn't mention it even though he seems to have a pretty good ear for it. Now, I'd go for the one that you linked to anyways because I like the measurements of that one as a whole better (response, more tips, less distortion might mean a less distressed unit and therefore more longevity).

Knowing what music content actually consists of though is very useful when evaluating products, and it is something that is surprisingly commonly overlooked.

 

[lin4265]

Seriously? Nah, you're just kidding, right?

For myself, IEM tuned to dot by dot harman 2019 sounds fabulous. As good as genelec and sub combo. However Harman OE 2018 does not sound like IE 2019. It sounds neutral and correct but does not sound like a speaker in a room.

An IEM set without any dynamic driver, sound stage, spatial, imaging and blah blah quality tuned to IE 2019 sound closer to a speaker+sub than headphones tuned to OE 2018 unless my over-ear isn't good enough but that shouldn't matter if we are talking about pure tonality.

likewise to PenguinMusic's thoughts, Even neutral tuning can give off different impressions to one to another to the point that every IEM/headphones/speakers should be eq'd to one standard to avoid circle of confusion between sets. I'd argue that OE 2018 needs modification because of this but I digress.

To back my thoughts:

 

[Madlop26]

Studio monitors are used to mix music. Headphones are just an additional tool and you can use literally any headphones in the studio as long as you have reference monitors. So the term "studio headphones" means nothing

The SE846 are a stage monitor, and they are very expensive and not worth the price. Their main advantage is good comfort and great isolation, in this respect they are miles ahead of most Chinese IEMs.

Agreed, "neutral monitoring IEM"? what is the FR needed to meet that? or is just an arbitrary word people used, is there a standardization for neutral sound in headphones or IEMs?
Anyway, I have the Shure SE846, and in my ears cannot compete with any Harman complain modern cheap IEM, not enough subbass for a full range sound. About comfort and isolation; I have not noticed any major difference honestly, all are equal uncomfortable, i cannot use any IEM for more than 1 hour, the only one exception is the Air pods pro, which also provides a superior isolation, (my more used IEM) you may hate Apple but man, they know how to design hardware for easy use.

 

[lin4265]

Is there a headphone you find most natural and accurate?

HD 650

 

[sgent]

@amirm

Has any reviewer incorporated Harman's new target curve introduced in audio society papers and presentation by Sean Olive at CCAM? What's the story on this?

 

[amirm]

@amirm

Has any reviewer incorporated Harman's new target curve introduced in audio society papers and presentation by Sean Olive at CCAM? What's the story on this?

The second version has quietly been rolled out. For that reason, I did not use it for a while. But then ran into an IEM which sounded bright with version 1 but good on version 2 so I adopted it. I wish there was a formal paper showing and contrasting the two. Maybe there is and I have missed it.

 

[fountain]

will the android app poweramp let me eq my headphones the same as you?

 

[amirm]

will the android app poweramp let me eq my headphones the same as you?

In my quick look of the app, no. Their EQ is "graphic" in that it has fixed frequencies/width for different filters. You want a parametric EQ where you can control that. I think some members here have converted my settings to graphic one.

 

[Doodski]

will the android app poweramp let me eq my headphones the same as you?

Maybe there is software at this webpage in the Android section that can do what you need.

EQ Software for Windows, Linux, macOS, iOS/iPadOS and Android.

Any suggestions are welcome. Post suggestions here. I will gather the details and add them. Thanks. :D This will be organized as results come in. @sweetchaos made a guide for PEQ filter data input and operation. For crossover software go here. Windows: AutoEQ four easy steps to make your...

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