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Latest Guttenberg Video talks about measurements

BDWoody

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I was trying to be brief but provocative, controversial but not trollish. That we can’t always trust our ears is something I firmly believe. I’ve debated it many times with audiophile friends, but this is the first time I’ve “come out” about it on a heavily-viewed forum. Maybe I could have elaborated.

I thought the way you handled it was great. You gave responses that reflected knowing the audience that would be tuning in, and sometimes a little goes a long way. It all counts, and maybe you got some people thinking.

Nice listening room by the way!
 

IAtaman

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If I had said the above, Steve's subscribers would have hit the stop button and moved on. I was trying to keep things brief and breezy. I'm not an expert at striking the right balance.
Well for what it's worth, Sir, I think you did a very good job, and I really enjoyed listening to you talk about your experiences , I suspect like many other people did. Your openness to listen to the "other side" and have the strength of character to change your point of view despite many years of invested time and personal relationships is something to which we can all aspire.
 
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MRC01

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... If I had elaborated about trusting our ears (which would have required a few drinks), I might have said this: We feel like our ears have a direct connection to audible reality even though that's not how we perceive and interpret sensory data in consciousness. ... Normal people as opposed to audiophiles can "trust their ears" -- that is, trust their conscious perceptions -- because they are not trying to hear minuscule nuances in equipment and mixes. ...
Our ears aren't reliable enough to trust, but they're not wrong often enough to ignore. I've had situations where something that previously sounded and measured great, suddenly didn't sound right. Purely subjective, but measurements revealed a problem had developed. I've had other situations where I was confident I could hear a difference, but measurements couldn't reveal anything nor could ABX testing, so I had to conclude my ears had fooled me. This makes the hobby interesting, keeps us honest, and promotes a nuanced perspective that measurements, blind testing, and subjective listening all matter. Of course saying they all matter does not necessarily imply they are all equal.
 

bodhi

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True, although how many are those younger audiophiles? Hifi used to be a mainstream hobby but at the newer generations it is just a small niche (none of the under 30 year old people I know are interested in it) while there is still a quite big offer of offline and online magazines/reviewers which has to "fight" over it.

That might be the case. Still, the hobby must have gone to "underground" like many others, people buying stuff online and talking about it in forums and such.

I have been thinking that it only requires couple of influencers to showcase hifi as a hobby and droves of younger people flow into the hobby. People live more and more in their houses not going much anywhere so good hifi system seems to be reasonable investment.
 
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Jeromeof

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The funny thing with Darko (and of all these high profile YouTubers he is the worst I think) - but even he was trying his hand at REW measurements in a recent (possible his latest video - I won't promote it by posting here - check it out if you are interested ) - but his new listening room has significant reverb problems and he decided to do some before and afterwards measurements with 2 of the speakers he has and will be also using Dirac and some other room correction software and then get some room treatment company to fix it for him.

So I will probably check out what happens (but as always with these videos) its just eye candy - TikTok for audiophiles :D
 

Koeitje

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Nope. Still too rambling and ad hoc. The reason these YouTube presentations test my patience is that they are rarely completely scripted and planned, especially when there is more than one speaker. Just look at the "ums" in the transcript. In addition, simply watching a bobblehead talking is visually boring.
Most content creators these days use a lot of jump cuts to get rid of all the "fat" like pauses and "ums". Really helps in fixing the pacing of videos.
 

IAtaman

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The funny thing with Darko (and of all these high profile YouTubers he is the worst I think)
Why is Darko an Audio reviewer anyway? Is he a musician or sound engineer or sth or just a guy with a camera?
 
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Jeromeof

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Why is Darko an Audio reviewer anyway? Is he a musician or sound engineer or sth or just a guy with a camera?
I think he was lucky with Youtube - probably knows how to play the 'game' and probably had a couple of video's early on that had the right SEO keywords. He plays the "everyman" who doesn't know the technical details but happy to tell people his opinions and be your "audiophile" buddy - he reminds me of a bunch of people I used to work with over the years.
But like most of these YouTube guys including Guttenberg, Andrew Robinson and cheapaudioman - whom I do actually like - they are always looking at maximising their stats and with one eye on new "trends" that they should incorporate. Mostly I would check them out over breakfast if it seemed like it might feature something good - but in general only slightly better than watching the latest local news channel and I would definitely fast forward throw the waffle (Guttenburg is probably the worse for waffle).
 

MattHooper

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I think he was lucky with Youtube - probably knows how to play the 'game' and probably had a couple of video's early on that had the right SEO keywords. He plays the "everyman" who doesn't know the technical details but happy to tell people his opinions and be your "audiophile" buddy -

Nothing wrong with that I think. I'm not a huge fan of Darko, but I think there's room for reviewers like him. He fulfills a role some people find valuable.
While, yes he does go in for some dubious ideas (cable's 'n stuff...though not in a preachy way), he has provided many videos giving a nice "lay of the land" description and explanation for all sorts of audio gear, whether it's speakers (active and passive), streamers, remotes, etc.
 

IAtaman

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Nothing wrong with that I think. I'm not a huge fan of Darko, but I think there's room for reviewers like him. He fulfills a role some people find valuable.
While, yes he does go in for some dubious ideas (cable's 'n stuff...though not in a preachy way), he has provided many videos giving a nice "lay of the land" description and explanation for all sorts of audio gear, whether it's speakers (active and passive), streamers, remotes, etc.
True, his man of taste style has a charm of some sort and he provides some useful information at times as well. My problem with Darko is that his knowledge on the matters he is passing on judgement seems to be quite superficial. I don't think he understands what he is talking about very well himself. He is like this jacked up guy at gym who is giving people diet and exercise advice; there will be some good stuff and some bad stuff, but in the end all added up it will be a waste of time and money at best, compared to listening to certified trainer who knows what he is doing.
 
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Vacceo

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That might be the case. Still, the hobby must have gone to "underground" like many others, people buying stuff online and talking about it in forums and such.

I have been thinking that it only requires couple of influencers to showcase hifi as a hobby and droves of younger people flow into the hobby. People live more and more in their houses not going much anywhere so good hifi system seems to be reasonable investment.
It has gone super expensive for a generation whose earning power on average, has dwindled. That's why there is not a lot of young blood.
 

HarmonicTHD

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It has gone super expensive for a generation whose earning power on average, has dwindled. That's why there is not a lot of young blood.
Plus even the average mobile phone provides an audio quality which can be regarded as “good enough” by many especially in comparison to what we had available at the time (boom boxes, walk man, crappy turn tables etc). And therefore not creating the urge to “upgrade” today. I remember when the CD came out - now that was a wow effect in comparison to the aforementioned media. Not so much going from an iPhone to an HighEnd DAC.
 

Jimshoe

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Just watched the video. Great to listen to two gentlemen talk calmly and rationally without needing to ‘win’ or throw sh*t around; quite rare in internet audio circles.

I think the point made about being a ‘music lover’ and/or an ‘audiophile’ was accurate. If a subjective vinyl/tubes/cables system etc makes you happy that’s great. So too a super accurate objective approach. Lets be nice to each other - and to our patient spouse/partners as well!
 

bodhi

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It has gone super expensive for a generation whose earning power on average, has dwindled. That's why there is not a lot of young blood.

From what I have read the young middle class can't afford homes but they spend generously on other stuff. Small downtown two bedroom apartment is about half a mil here but that doesn't mean that couples who can't afford that can't use a few thousand for hifi. People spend a lot more on design furniture for their rented apartment.
 

bodhi

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If a subjective vinyl/tubes/cables system etc makes you happy that’s great. So too a super accurate objective approach.

Unfortunately the former approach also often has a built in assumption that the people in the latter category are not as serious/advanced hobbyists because they cannot understand or hear the benefits of subjectivist equipment. There would be no arguments between the two groups if everybody would agree that the subjectivists equipment enhances the experience, not the sound itself. Well, some subjectivists agree, but I guess vast majority doesn't.
 

Vacceo

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From what I have read the young middle class can't afford homes but they spend generously on other stuff. Small downtown two bedroom apartment is about half a mil here but that doesn't mean that couples who can't afford that can't use a few thousand for hifi. People spend a lot more on design furniture for their rented apartment.
I guess it depends on country and even region. Demographic data from mine shows that you have really high chances to be lower middle class to poor if you're less than 35. Over 35, things do not look better and rate of birth shows.
 

EJ3

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Homeopathy also has clients.


Darko has blocked links to Amir's content.

It is no secret that Gutenberg is someone's whose opinions give me no value at all. But he's a decent person, quite kind in his approach and quite willing to listen to rebuttals. Darko, not so much.
However, it does get my attention when Amir rates a speaker highly and Gutenberg also rates the same speaker highly.
 
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