Let's be a little nicer, especially to newcomers

[Deleted member 48726]

There is a horrible trend recently to accuse new members of being a troll when they state their (perfectly reasonable given what they'll have been reading all over the web for most of the time they've been interested in audio) opinion on how something sounds.

This seems particularly the case when someone is not writing in perfect English.

1 - Please lets give new members the benefit of the doubt until they *actually* start trolling. Espousing incorrect opinions or information is not that. At least not until they start to aggressively double down when nudged in a more ... sciency... direction.

2 - Lets recognise that for many, English is not their first language. They may be using online translation tools. Bad English does not a troll make.

Also being called a troll when you are not can be very provocative as the one calling you troll actually says that none of your comments or opinion matter. ANd that can be soo frustrating when you actually are trying to find the exact phrasing to get the point across as (technical) english isn't your first language.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

"Treat people how you'd like to be treated" has always stood the test of time. Not with just some things, but everything.

This is they most important mindset in both real life and on the internet. Many feel empowered by the anonymity on WWW and forget it unfortunately.

 

[Travis]

BUT I see just as many if not more of those harsh comments from senior members than newcomers.

That seems to be my experience as well, but I only read about 1 in 10, if that, new threads so it’s purely anecdotal.

But now there a thread to reference when you/we/I see that.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

That seems to be my experience as well, but I only read about 1 in 10, if that, new threads so it’s purely anecdotal.

But now there a thread to reference when you/we/I see that.

Of course it's anectdotal. It's a personal experience. And if ANY one asks for documentation and statistics I'll scream..

 

[benanders]

Hello you all. While I consider our forum to be more friendly than many, it seems that we are quite harsh on new members who post things that go against our consensus view. There is no reason to pound on people hard when they say this and that sounds good to them. Let them have some time here to learn what we are about and what the data is.

By the same token, please dial down the complaining. Heaven knows every time I do a review, a good percentage is complaining about this and that. When a device performs extremely well, it is time to celebrate, not to think of half a dozen reasons why that is a bad thing. Dealing with all the negative commentary takes away some of the fun of reviewing such gear.

To be sure, you can correct people who try to prove science and engineering is wrong. Or issues you find in my testing or expressing a general opinion. Just be mindful of the negative consequences of it. I know I personally let go of many things that I don't agree with it.

I tell you these things because I see senior members wanting to have their account deleted at times due to the high tensions they see here on so many topics. Let's just be more relaxed about this. OK?

I’ve met some scientists who consistently generate an “I don’t like you, so I don’t like your science” Rxn among laypersons.
Infer whatcha will, here.

Edit: made my comment less ambiguous, if only a little.

 

[Travis]

Having said that, I think ASR is improving when it comes to friendliness. Just a year ago, any thread which had "turntable" or "valve amp" on the title would ignite a round of bashing which would rapidly drag the thread off topic. I don't see this happening any more, so either those guys have worn themselves out or they have gotten the message from our moderators

Ah, that’s a good point, forgot about that. I just quit reading those threads because it was a repeat every time. You would see a post: Recommendation For Turntable Under $xxxx. There would be some well thought out responses, by clearly knowledgeable people, and then the same the same group of people with their rote responses about the shortcomings of vinyl. Interesting why some people feel compelled to respond to a thread that has nothing to do with the posters question, but they do.

Not very friendly or welcoming.

I think I saw a review for a 300b amp recently that was pretty respectful (but it was early).

Glad to here that is changing.

 

[Travis]

Of course it's anectdotal. It's a personal experience. And if ANY one asks for documentation and statistics I'll scream..

Would never ask for that, but will have to insist on a Double Blind Test.

 

[sam_adams]

Oh man, amirm trolling on some other sites - that would be a sight to behold!

One of the things that caused me to gravitate to ASR was reading @amirm's postings on other sites. His explanations during discussions made sense because he was able to back his arguments with actual facts and published research. Unfortunately many of those who's arguments he soundly trounced seemed to take offense at that. That, of course, had them calling on the mods on those sites to ban him because he was 'mean' to them. For some reason they simply could not accept that they had been 'bested' by someone with a better grasp of the subject matter than they had. They simply lacked the 'humility' to accept that they didn't know everything about a particular subject. (The paper I linked previously discusses that.) I never got the impression that he was 'trolling' anyone, ever.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Would never ask for that, but will have to insist on a Double Blind Test.

 

[Travis]

They simply lacked the 'humility' to accept that they didn't know everything about a particular subject. (The paper I linked previously discusses that.)

That was an excellent paper. Glad to see they studied and reconfirmed that DK effect is alive and well on all things science.

I think the studies and testing are very well established on audio equipment. However, there isn’t much scientific consensus when it comes to loudspeakers. Heyser, Holman, Toole, Olive and many, many others have brought us ahead by leaps and bounds, but other than FR, on and off axis, there doesn’t appear to be much consensus on what the best sounding speaker will be for any particular application. There is a long way to go on that, and I don’t know whether there will ever be hard and fast standards in our lifetime.

 

[GD Fan]

One of the things that caused me to gravitate to ASR was reading @amirm's postings on other sites. His explanations during discussions made sense because he was able to back his arguments with actual facts and published research. Unfortunately many of those who's arguments he soundly trounced seemed to take offense at that. That, of course, had them calling on the mods on those sites to ban him because he was 'mean' to them. For some reason they simply could not accept that they had been 'bested' by someone with a better grasp of the subject matter than they had. They simply lacked the 'humility' to accept that they didn't know everything about a particular subject. (The paper I linked previously discusses that.) I never got the impression that he was 'trolling' anyone, ever.

The willful embrace of ignorance is one of the more shocking, disappointing, and unnecessary contemporary conditions of a surprisingly large contingent of the American public.

 

[voodooless]

Lastly, one thing I have observed is that some here feel the need to save people from themselves. It’s a constant undercurrent of saving those that buy high dollar cables, $10,000 fuses (is anyone aware of someone actually buying a $10,000 fuse?) and a lot of other things. Or “audiophiles” who make choices based on how it sounds. They don’t need saving. Science, engineering, measurements, double blind testing in audio have been around in journals, audio magazines, now audio forums and everything else since at least the 1950s. People who come here, and stay here, (“US”) don’t need saving.

I think that plenty of “converts” would disagree vehemently with this. Some of them would have liked to have been “saved” decades ago. The very reason this forum exists is to educate people and fight misinformation in the audio industry. Saving people from a viciously evil industry is part of that. You can obviously question the methods employed. I think it’s much more effective to counter the source of the misinformation, than the ones parroting it.

I agree with your motivation Amir and I applaud it. But unless you and the moderators start doing something, like going into those threads and telling some members to shut up "or else", this kind of behaviour is going to continue.

This! It may be because I like the Dutch direct way, but telling the individuals that their behavior is over the line, right when it happens, is the best way to make them change. It’s much more effective than a general topic pleading for change. The “shut up or else” bit may need a bit more tact though I’m sure the mods will figure that out.

 

[thecheapseats]

"Let's be a little nicer"...

in double-blind tests - the 'nice' preference has been shown to be over-rated... : )

 

[antcollinet]

"Treat people how you'd like to be treated" has always stood the test of time. Not with just some things, but everything.

I like the "Thumper's Mum" philosophy....

If you can't say anything nice, don't say nothing at all

 

[hearone]

Hello you all. While I consider our forum to be more friendly than many, it seems that we are quite harsh on new members who post things that go against our consensus view. There is no reason to pound on people hard when they say this and that sounds good to them. Let them have some time here to learn what we are about and what the data is.

By the same token, please dial down the complaining. Heaven knows every time I do a review, a good percentage is complaining about this and that. When a device performs extremely well, it is time to celebrate, not to think of half a dozen reasons why that is a bad thing. Dealing with all the negative commentary takes away some of the fun of reviewing such gear.

To be sure, you can correct people who try to prove science and engineering is wrong. Or issues you find in my testing or expressing a general opinion. Just be mindful of the negative consequences of it. I know I personally let go of many things that I don't agree with it.

I tell you these things because I see senior members wanting to have their account deleted at times due to the high tensions they see here on so many topics. Let's just be more relaxed about this. OK?

Thank you for your observations and suggested new directions. I am a new member and quickly donated because of the value of your reviews. They are very helpful! However, reading some of the forums- not so much. I have frankly been very cautious of posting any comments. Some of the forums responses, especially for new members are pretty harsh. Several times I had thought of commenting on a topics and even composed a response, but just delete it- just don't want to get called a troll or some attack.

I hope you see this as just a confirmation of your post and not a complaint nor an attack. I do look forward to your reviews and your UT channel always.

 

[Andysu]

 

[napfkuchen]

... I see just as many if not more of those harsh comments from senior members than newcomers.

These rules do not apply to the inner circle. Troll-reply to my first posting here:

 

[JSmith]

Troll-reply to my first posting here

I don't see how that is a troll reply? @BDWoody, I think, is suggesting you're a brave man for only using volume control in a PC direct to active speakers. That's why @thewas joked about it in the following post. Also, myself, BDWoody and others liked/welcomed your post in the welcome thread. It's also possible he misunderstood your setup at the time... but it surely doesn't come across as trolling to me, more a misunderstanding, ymmv.


JSmith

 

[AdamG]

These rules do not apply to the inner circle. Troll-reply to my first posting here:

View attachment 292396

Simply a language difference misunderstanding. He was joking with you not at or about you. This happens far more often than you might think. I don’t know how we fix this. All we can do is all of us try a little harder to give the new guy the benefit of the doubt and treat them with a touch more respect and dignity. I have seen considerable improvement in this respect. Some progress has been made. Remaining aware is all we ask. We are a Global Web Site. When communications seem to be going down hill. Majority of times is due to a language barrier. We are doing better and we will continue to build on this progress.

I don’t forsee a Group Hug or us all singing Kumbia together. We keep trying and helping our fellow members as we wish to be treated. It’s easy to forget that their is a human behind the Avatar. Whom suffers from the same human condition that we all endure. The new guys get a pass and we try to go easier on them until at least day 3. Then all bets are off.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

These rules do not apply to the inner circle. Troll-reply to my first posting here:

View attachment 292396

He just meant that your volume control isn't safe as it can suddenly be in another setting without you noticing. Burning speakers, amps and ears if you don't see it.

But that you must know to understand his comment. And he should know that you didn't know the risks involved and should've explained it.

Some of the guys with more knowledge should be better to put themselves in the shoes of the ones without.