Linkwitz LX521.4 - new build and impressions

[suttondesign]

Since this will be a dedicated room, 4 feet from the side walls is definitely doable, same for the front wall. I already have another set of standard monitors but the open baffle has been intriguing me for some time now.

Even though I could leave 4 feet between the speakers and the walls, would you still recommend the LXmini+2 instead? I'm open to other DIY suggestions as well but I don't want to deviate from the thread topic too much.

in a dedicated room, i suggest the 521.4. the lxmini is great but runs out of steam, esp with big orchestral. on the bright side, the lxmini is small and cute. a room that size needs a couple subs to fill in below 50hz for the lxmini. they are amazing within their spl tolerance. siegfried recommended starting with the lxmini, and I agree. if you are near bellingham, wa, i can loan you my mothballed lxmini.

 

[fourdogslong]

in a dedicated room, i suggest the 521.4. the lxmini is great but runs out of steam, esp with big orchestral. on the bright side, the lxmini is small and cute. a room that size needs a couple subs to fill in below 50hz for the lxmini. they are amazing within their spl tolerance. siegfried recommended starting with the lxmini, and I agree. if you are near bellingham, wa, i can loan you my mothballed lxmini.

Do you think the LX521.4 can be used without additionnal subwoofers in a room that size?
That's a very generous offer but I'm in Quebec, that's a pretty long drive

 

[fungd]

I have built and used both the LXmini and the LX-521s. For the minis, I bought the Madisound precut wood parts as well as the drivers, sourcing the rest of the parts from other stores. One of the minis design parameters was to make the DIY easier and more accessible, and that included using parts found in a hardware store (e.g. rubber coupler and plastic piping). For the LX-521s, I bought the drivers from Madisound, and in spite of being a wood-working neophyte, I cut the wood myself.

I had them in the same spot in my living room, which is 14' x 21', 3 feet from the front and side walls. They sounded great, and for me, putting them 4 feet from the front and side walls did not change the character (tonality, spaciousness, soundstage) appreciably. In the end, aesthetics and furniture placement mandated their placement at 3 feet anyway. Both systems used the recommended MiniDSP products.

I can guarantee that you will want to use room correction to tame your room modes, so DSP is the way to go. I bought the boards and parts for the analog crossover but never bothered to build it.

Also, you may want to just build an LXMini on the cheap without augmenting them with a subwoofer solution. You can scratch your itch in terms of hearing the soundstage effects, and add to the low-end later. And if you have not done so, read Siegfried's very informative website https://www.linkwitzlab.com/ to see his design process (start with the Basics as the front-page is more about the for-profit business created after Siegfried's passing). You can also take a deep dive into the builder forum https://oplug-support.org/, although it's a rat's nest of information accumulated over time.

 

[fungd]

Do you think the LX521.4 can be used without additionnal subwoofers in a room that size?
That's a very generous offer but I'm in Quebec, that's a pretty long drive

I have absolutely no need for subwoofers. Worth noting that they were not designed for home theater, so if you were planning on using them that way (feeding them subsonic explosions etc), you will need something like a high-pass subwoofer to precede your source signal to the speakers.

 

[fourdogslong]

I have built and used both the LXmini and the LX-521s. For the minis, I bought the Madisound precut wood parts as well as the drivers, sourcing the rest of the parts from other stores. One of the minis design parameters was to make the DIY easier and more accessible, and that included using parts found in a hardware store (e.g. rubber coupler and plastic piping). For the LX-521s, I bought the drivers from Madisound, and in spite of being a wood-working neophyte, I cut the wood myself.

I had them in the same spot in my living room, which is 14' x 21', 3 feet from the front and side walls. They sounded great, and for me, putting them 4 feet from the front and side walls did not change the character (tonality, spaciousness, soundstage) appreciably. In the end, aesthetics and furniture placement mandated their placement at 3 feet anyway. Both systems used the recommended MiniDSP products.

I can guarantee that you will want to use room correction to tame your room modes, so DSP is the way to go. I bought the boards and parts for the analog crossover but never bothered to build it.

Also, you may want to just build an LXMini on the cheap without augmenting them with a subwoofer solution. You can scratch your itch in terms of hearing the soundstage effects, and add to the low-end later. And if you have not done so, read Siegfried's very informative website https://www.linkwitzlab.com/ to see his design process (start with the Basics as the front-page is more about the for-profit business created after Siegfried's passing). You can also take a deep dive into the builder forum https://oplug-support.org/, although it's a rat's nest of information accumulated over time.

Thanks for the info.
Did you have a preference between the two?
Also, you speak in past tense, did you end up selling them, just curious. The LXmini only would make sence financially that's for sure.

 

[fourdogslong]

I have absolutely no need for subwoofers. Worth noting that they were not designed for home theater, so if you were planning on using them that way (feeding them subsonic explosions etc), you will need something like a high-pass subwoofer to precede your source signal to the speakers.

They would be for music only so that's not an issue.

 

[suttondesign]

Do you think the LX521.4 can be used without additionnal subwoofers in a room that size?
That's a very generous offer but I'm in Quebec, that's a pretty long drive

Yes, for music. Entirely adequate for 98% of my music collection, and the open-baffle bass is incredibly natural sounding.

 

[fungd]

Thanks for the info.
Did you have a preference between the two?
Also, you speak in past tense, did you end up selling them, just curious. The LXmini only would make sence financially that's for sure.

I use the LX521s every day, since 2016. I built the LXmini first, and then decided to build the LX521s after visiting Linkwitz at his home. This was before all the various subwoofer solutions, so I never got the chance to try one where a lot of the low-end was offloaded, which presumably would not only fortify the bottom end, but would also increase max SPLs. BTW, the minis are for an upstairs system that gets little use.

 

[fourdogslong]

Yes, for music. Entirely adequate for 98% of my music collection, and the open-baffle bass is incredibly natural sounding.

Nice, I bet these open baffle are great.
Actually I stumbled upon these while looking at the Seas LROY04 woofer. I have a pair of Amphion Two15 for work, and I'd like to add subs that are crossed over a little high, around 100hz, and Amphion's subwoofer use the LROY04 (probably customized for them) and radiators but the system is over my budget (it's 15K CAD for 2 sub towers or 9K for a single stereo sub )so I was looking at building them myself and then saw that the LX521 uses them.

I wonder if the open baffle "subs" could work with my current monitors, and how that would compare to a sealed cabinet with passive radiators...

 

[fourdogslong]

I use the LX521s every day, since 2016. I built the LXmini first, and then decided to build the LX521s after visiting Linkwitz at his home. This was before all the various subwoofer solutions, so I never got the chance to try one where a lot of the low-end was offloaded, which presumably would not only fortify the bottom end, but would also increase max SPLs. BTW, the minis are for an upstairs system that gets little use.

I see, yeah it makes sence that the offload would help the mid driver. Thanks for the info!

 

[fungd]

I wonder if the open baffle "subs" could work with my current monitors, and how that would compare to a sealed cabinet with passive radiators...

You have the same placement issues restrictions, so if your space where your monitors live doesn't meet the requirements, then you aren't going to reap the benefits. If you do have the space, you can certainly deploy them if you can equalize and create the appropriate crossovers. Once you build them, you can use them in a future build of the LX521 or LXStudio (aka mini plus the subs). OTOH, the woofers are not cheap and I believe Seas altered them for Siegfried (there's a particular version: L26RO4Y (XM004-04S)).

BTW, if you haven't already, read this introduction of the original LX521 design, which addresses room placement, design decisions, and the particulars of the open baffle woofer: https://www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Description.htm

 

[JP]

I see your point, basically the MiniDSP allows more tweaking, personnalization and room correction so the advantages possibly outweighs the disadvantages of the additionnal AD/DA conversion.

Digital souces to the miniDSP and you've just the one DA conversion. For analog sources, arguably I'd rather do the heavy-lifting in the digital domain than the analog domain. I convert my analog sources to digital at the first possible opportunity.

not that loud, but there are movie soundtracks which have infrasonics

Ah. IIRC, Siegfried was rather specific that they weren't suitable for HT, likely for that very reason. Not a bridge I've had to cross as HT hasn't been on my radar for a very long time.

 

[somebodyelse]

I wonder if the open baffle "subs" could work with my current monitors, and how that would compare to a sealed cabinet with passive radiators...

They could. I used to use open baffle subs with some small stand mounted speakers and they integrated well given the limitations of the crossover at the time. The DSP now would make it a lot easier to get just right. They interact with the room differently to monopoles so have different placement issues, and have lower maximum SPL. Having said that the only time I've had an issue with the LXmini+2 was wind noise on a GoPro recording - serious infrasonics there. I don't listen that loud though, so YMMV.

 

[fourdogslong]

You have the same placement issues restrictions, so if your space where your monitors live doesn't meet the requirements, then you aren't going to reap the benefits. If you do have the space, you can certainly deploy them if you can equalize and create the appropriate crossovers. Once you build them, you can use them in a future build of the LX521 or LXStudio (aka mini plus the subs). OTOH, the woofers are not cheap and I believe Seas altered them for Siegfried (there's a particular version: L26RO4Y (XM004-04S)).

BTW, if you haven't already, read this introduction of the original LX521 design, which addresses room placement, design decisions, and the particulars of the open baffle woofer: https://www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Description.htm

I just read the article of your link, it's pretty interesting and the way he describes how the room should be ideally seems to relate to the way I had planned to do my room, which is a diffused front wall and and absobtive rear wall. I am still wondering if I should have corner bass trap, covered with reflective material, on the front wall or not, to help with room modes / low end build up. That's another topic though.

This might be an interesting approach, start with the subs (bottom part of the LX521.4) and my current speakers, and in the future when money allows, build the top part of the LX521.4.

 

[fourdogslong]

Digital souces to the miniDSP and you've just the one DA conversion. For analog sources, arguably I'd rather do the heavy-lifting in the digital domain than the analog domain. I convert my analog sources to digital at the first possible opportunity.



Ah. IIRC, Siegfried was rather specific that they weren't suitable for HT, likely for that very reason. Not a bridge I've had to cross as HT hasn't been on my radar for a very long time.

Yes if I go with a minidsp, I would definitely feed it with a digital signal to avoid the extra DA/AD. I would probably go with one of the higher end unit that has a remote with volume control. Right now I much prefer my ADI-2 Pro FS R plugged directly into my amp, no preamp, I didn't test a whole lot of preamp but from what I tested the sound was much more pure, I lost quite a bit of dimension and details with the preamp in the chain.

 

[jhenderson0107]

...I could leave 4 feet between the speakers and the walls, would you still recommend the LXmini+2 instead?

I'd strongly recommend the LX-521's. They are excellent and no sub is required, IMO.

 

[jhenderson0107]

Yes if I go with a minidsp, I would definitely feed it with a digital signal to avoid the extra DA/AD. I would probably go with one of the higher end unit that has a remote with volume control. Right now I much prefer my ADI-2 Pro FS R plugged directly into my amp, no preamp, I didn't test a whole lot of preamp but from what I tested the sound was much more pure, I lost quite a bit of dimension and details with the preamp in the chain.

I use the ADI-2 Pro FS R to feed the AES input of the 4x10HD, primarily to leverage the ADI loudness compensation and PEQ filters to tame room modes. IMO the 4x10 is audibly transparent, but since MiniDSP has two newer units with 8-channel outputs, choose one of those if starting from scratch.

 

[fourdogslong]

I use the ADI-2 Pro FS R to feed the AES input of the 4x10HD, primarily to leverage the ADI loudness compensation and PEQ filters to tame room modes. IMO the 4x10 is audibly transparent, but since MiniDSP has two newer units with 8-channel outputs, choose one of those if starting from scratch.

I'll definitely look at the different options I have if I decide to build a kit. I usually don't use the EQ section on my ADI with speakers but it's good to have the option.

 

[fourdogslong]

Yes, for music. Entirely adequate for 98% of my music collection, and the open-baffle bass is incredibly natural sounding.

For you amplification, I read in your first post that you used Hypex amps made by Nord. What Hypex module are used?
On the LX-521.4 web page, they say to use 5 amps per speakers, minimum 50 watt each. I wonder why the woofers need 2 amps since they use the same source from the crossover, wouldn't it be simpler to use one more powerful amp instead?

When you buy the plans for the LX-521.4, does it give more information about what the amplification requirements are? I guess 10 Purifi amps would be overkill and could possibly damage the smaller drivers like the tweeters, if I were to build that speaker I'd want the best amps for it sound wise but I wouldn't want to waste money either.

 

[JP]

On the LX-521.4 web page, they say to use 5 amps per speakers, minimum 50 watt each. I wonder why the woofers need 2 amps since they use the same source from the crossover, wouldn't it be simpler to use one more powerful amp instead?

Yes, and as long as your amp can handle the load it works just fine. One AHB2 handles all four woofers in my setup.