Looking to upgrade - bookshelves, EUR 2500-3000 used

[gn77b]

I own a pair of Dynaudio Confidence 3 speakers (not the C3, earlier model made between 1994 and 2002). They are good but I always felt there's something off in the midrange/highs. Very hard to put the finger on it but others have confirmed. Tried them in different rooms (of which one a friend built purposely for music listening, with treatment, lots of room to play with positioning etc), different electronics but that "something" is always there.
After some auditions I did recently I'm convinced that it's not the room, placement but that the speakers themselves are the weak link. I listened to a pair of Morel Octaves (the floorstanding ones) and Raidho X2T. This is the second time I listened to Raidhos and my initial impression was confirmed: the highs are definitely superior and yes, there's something wrong with the highs of my Dyns. It's not a matter of taste, there's a lack of clarity that becomes evident with better speakers and it's way more than a nuance, it simply transforms the music. First listen with Raidhoss was on a first generation with Audio Technology drivers and while the overall sound was different those highs were still there: absolutely clear with no trace of harshness. They make my tweeters sound broken in comparison. The Morels were different but in all honesty better too. Now I'd get Raidhos but I get the feeling (which even someone who sells a pair locally confirmed) that their bookshelves are limited in bass which I'm not willing to give up. The Dyns have 18 cm midbass drivers and in that respect there's nothing missing. I'm not the type to listen to audiophile type of music (think Best Audiophile Voices), good bass is needed for music enjoyment and I pretty much listen to all kinds of music.

So you get the overall picture. I'm convinced this is an inherent linitation of my speakers in midrange/highs and I'm past the point of lying to myself. I'm trying to avoid typical audio magazine lingo but if I'd give up that I'd call it lack of smoothness and transparency. What I found locally that looks interesting:

Morel Octave (the bookshelves)
Opera Callas
Raidho X-Streame (I think they would lack bass, they have 10cm midbasses and reviews say that Raidhos tend to fall apart at higher volume)
Raidho X-Centric (seller described them as strident)
Dynaudio Compound 3

I'm looking for a recommendation that fits most if not all of these criteria:

• are bookshelves because I'm listening in a rather small room and IME good floorstanders are too expensive for my budget
• EUR 2500-3000 used
• are easily available in Europe, some brands are very hard if not almost impossible to find here
• have at least decent bass, clear, open highs and midrange but not harsh, capable of good soundstage, especially depth
• just make you not care about equipment, my Dyns failed me at that; for my tastes the X2Ts are get off the merry go round speakers but way outside budget

 

[ZolaIII]

Wharfedale Linton's, invest rest into room treatment and DSP.

 

[gn77b]

Wharfedale Linton's, invest rest into room treatment and DSP.

That's interesting, the local seller that has the Raidho X-Centric said he now only listens on Lintons. He described them as lacking soundstage, separation etc but simply enjoyable. Made me remember of Harbeths which I never listened but are typically described (at least that's my impression) as opposite to the typical audiophile sound which can be spectacular but at the same time unpleasant for pure music listening. Some speakers (like the X2Ts I'm praising) have both but are too expensive.

I already have a miniDSP measurement mic which I tried with the PC app and it does change the sound significantly for the better but at the same time other speakers sound just better in crappy rooms. My Dyns stayed more or less the same in absolutely different rooms with different positioning and different electronics. They clearly have a signature that's not my kind. At the same time they are much better than many other speakers. A friend has some M-System speakers, forgot the model (dutch brand that sells almost exclusively there). They have much better highs/mids in my room but overall my Dyns are clearly better at bass, soundstange and they don't have that in your face sound that is irritating especially when bass lacks.

 

[ZolaIII]

This is not who said what place.

Measurements for speaker Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary

www.spinorama.org

From there go direct to Erin's data and take a look at compression test. For more start listening outside not in a small room. OK then MiniDSP is sufficient enough most part. Invest in subwoofer's then instead (along with Linton's or without them but for improvement in mids with them) and implement equal loudness compensation (ISO 226 2003 or newer) or at least EQ with it counted in for desired/usual listening SPL. Have a nice time and enjoy.

 

[ninetylol]

This is not who said what place.

Measurements for speaker Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary

www.spinorama.org

From there go direct to Erin's data and take a look at compression test. For more start listening outside not in a small room. OK then MiniDSP is sufficient enough most part. Invest in subwoofer's then instead (along with Linton's or without them but for improvement in mids with them) and implement equal loudness compensation (ISO 226 2003 or newer) or at least EQ with it counted in for desired/usual listening SPL. Have a nice time and enjoy.

Is the sub with the Lintons based on your own experience?

Mine play down to 25 Hz in my room, I dont see how this will improve the experience by much. Also keeping in mind sub Integration is never easy.

 

[ZolaIII]

Is the sub with the Lintons based on your own experience?

Mine play down to 25 Hz in my room, I dont see how this will improve the experience by much. Also keeping in mind sub Integration is never easy.

They pass without it and sub's improve things takings part of the load which they do better and improving the THD where it's most important (1~3 KHz). With speakers that have deticated mid range driver and isolated from rest it won't be a big improvement (more for two ways). Second part is transition frequency for equal loudness compensation or a bit above it. As that's 100~105 Hz and bit of extension crossover is 120~130 Hz and as that's above 60~70 Hz where it sum up perfectly and it's not directive then each sub per each chenel main speaker and to it quite literally. Crossovers are eachy part always but it's not all that hard to do them. As they slope naturally in room you firs iron up peeks under crossover point for each (cuple PEQ's) and then slope down sub to match it and model order it follow to math model (I use Butterwort as model) and same for other ones. If you don't have equal loudness you can use low self filter @ 100~105 Hz with Butterwort Q). That's all additional work of proper integrating crossover point and dynamic bass/loudness (ISO 226 2003). It does need capable and configurable DSP but nothing out of this space.

 

[gn77b]

FWIW I ended up getting a used pair of Morel Octave 6 Limited Edition bookshelves. I'm still amazed how these better my old speakers, especially in midrange/highs. Clarity, detail and these come with a very addictive smoothness. This confirms my impression which I posted in the opening post: there's definitely something off in that respect with the Dynaudios and if by some wonder some "magical", very expensive amp could've fixed that I simply don't care.

Also, bass is suprizing, incredibly low and clean. Maybe there's a little bump that can be heard as seen here

but it sounds good.

Overall a very pleasant souding speaker, 100% satisfied.