I hear you all and appreciate what you say, really, but sound and music are not numbers (digits) to me and if the math can't find it than the math need to be rectified, because i hear it. as far as the article go, it made sense to me(NASA or not)
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Measurement of R2R DAC
- Thread starter Dialectic
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So your personal perception is more valid than 100 years of scientific research? I see...
Just out of curiosity, what got you to join ASR?
when it comes to music listening, definitelySo your personal perception is more valid than 100 years of scientific research? I see...
and as i said earlier, i prefer sigma delta sound. i just say that there is something in the rr2r sound that I like that is missing to sigma, and i am not the only one. and I really think it's worth exploringi fallow and love amirm reviews for a long time
Have you noticed that he relies on science and measurements, not subjective perceptions?
when it comes to music listening, definitely
Your personal subjective perceptions and preferences have been noted, and rest assured, the topic has been explored for at least 90 years or so, ever since Claude Shannon and Harry Nyquist.
yes but not only. after all his measurement he do a listing test
And you are counting on his tastes to be similar to yours?
Amir likes to feel his earlobes flapping from the power in the low registers. As long as you like the same, his listening reviews will be of value to you
never thought of it like that, taste is subjective. i just think listening is what it's all about so it is important to listen as well. so he listen. as do i
So if taste is subjective (as it is), what use are his subjective opinions to you?
As I wrote, the most important test is indeed listening, but you have to make sure the only factor influencing the result is the actual difference, not your preconceived notions, confirmation bias and beliefs. Thus it has to be a controlled, level-matched double-blind test. Have you done any?
He does subjective tests on headphone amps typically... Not on DAC's...as be realizes there is no need unless measurements show there's a problem.
Where does he show a sound preference for one DAC vs another?
i'm not sure what is the relevance of this, but if you really want to know i'm sure you can ask him. i only care that he does do listening test, it shows me he value real life experience as well. anyway i am pretty sure that not manipulating the sound as its benefits, if you don't you are untitled to your opinion
How would he know what use his subjective opinions are to you?
Are you perhaps typing on a phone? That sentence doesn't make sense.
I think the whole r2r vs ds argument has no basis as there's at least a dozen other factors that may affect how something can sound, even if we're talking about differences that somehow don't register on analyzers. If there was a DAC that could allow to swap out its DAC chip leaving other parts identical then there would be some potential for objectively subjective exploration.
That said, while I subscribe to all scientific opinions expressed here, I do tend to think that blind tests don't tell whole story. I acknowledge that I can't reliably tell the difference between several DACs I own blind, yet in long listening sessions I tend to prefer some over the others.
That said, while I subscribe to all scientific opinions expressed here, I do tend to think that blind tests don't tell whole story. I acknowledge that I can't reliably tell the difference between several DACs I own blind, yet in long listening sessions I tend to prefer some over the others.
Maybe you should ask someone who really understands the science (unlike the author) read it for you and tell you all that is wrong there.
SNR measured over 1 second? Who says?
Switching is bad in delta-sigma? How about switching in R2R?
Dither doesn't work? Really? There are dozens of demos on Youtube showing how dither works wonderfully and your ear doesn't need "1 second averaging" to hear its benefits.
And who is the author? I searched for Lynn Olson everywhere. I can't find a bio. Do you know if he has proper signal processing experience? If not, why on earth do you trust what he says? Did you not note things like this?
Pay attention to the name of this forum: Audio Science Review. We have membership here who actually knows this topic and has practiced it. And you tell us to read something written for audiophiles to believe?
Don't put your guard down because you like the message. Pay attention to where something is published. And by whom. Above all, don't print a page from the Internet to show to your doctor to tell him you know more because you read that.
Back to your statement, our measurements aim to determine if a DAC does what it is supposed to do: convert digital samples faithfully to analog. That is all it is supposed to do, and all it can do. It doesn't know what music is. It doesn't know noise. It doesn't know anything. All it is given is a sequence of numbers to convert to analog. Our measurements feed it numbers and determines if what comes out of the other side are the same or different.
Furthermore, when we see deviations, we have detailed data in the form of spectrum we can use with psychoacoustics to determine audiblity. No hand waving here.
Last but not least, what you state is the latest talking point about R2R. It used to be that people were told that these are the most accurate DACs. Many people buy them because they think that is the case. To the extent our measurements show otherwise, we dismiss with that marketing myth.
I know him. He does not.
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