Need Monitor Advice for a Challenging Small Room

[cutmix]

Hi everyone,

Long-time lurker here, finally making my first post! I’m a professional filmmaker specializing in video editing and sound mixing. I’ve been absorbing a wealth of information from this community and now find myself in need of some expert advice. Excited to join the conversation!

I'm in a bit of a predicament with my current setup. My Equator D5 monitors have developed a persistent pulsating hiss, prompting me to consider alternatives. My workspace is a small, untreated room (9.5 x 14.5 feet), which became even more cramped after I added large acoustic baffles last year. Unfortunately, room measurements via REW suggested that achieving a flat response was nearly impossible, so I removed the baffles and now primarily use Slate VSX headphones.

With these challenges, I'm questioning the value of investing heavily in new monitors. My budget is up to $1000 for a pair, but I'm torn between high-end options like Neumann KH80s with MA-1 calibration or even augmenting a pair of speakers with IK Multimedia’s new ARC system...or sticking with more affordable choices like JBL 305Ps, iLoud Micro Monitors, Kali LP-UNFs, or Adam T5Vs.

Given the limitations of my room, is it wise to invest in premium monitors, or should I opt for more modest, reliable options? I would greatly appreciate any insights or experiences from those who have navigated similar acoustic challenges.

Thanks for your advice!

 

[cutmix]

Let me restate - given that I primarily use headphones for monitoring in a suboptimal, small, untreated room, would it be wiser to invest in the very best monitors possible under these conditions, or should I save money and opt for a "good enough" set of speakers, reallocating funds to other essential tools?

 

[dfuller]

I think at $1000/pr I'd just get Kali IN-5s and call it a day. Spend the rest on other stuff.

 

[ZolaIII]

Show a rough room drawing, possible placement position, listening position distance and so on. That's not a so small room, I have smaller with basic treatment and achieved very good results (including RT60 decay and waterfalls not just FR) with lot of work and DSP use of course. Again question is also what you want to achieve (SPL level, bass extension...) and that's not exactly a big budget. Also what else you have from equipment or intend to use (PC, audio interface...)? Is it a A/V room (probably is)?

 

[cutmix]

@ZolaIII Thank you for your advice. I've uploaded a sketch of my current room layout for a better understanding. The usable space is roughly 7 feet wide due to a cutout with a built-in bench and some shelves, and my desk placement is limited by windows and doors. I also find it uncomfortable to have my back facing the door, which influences my seating arrangement. Additionally, this space doubles as my office, storing both equipment and files.

My current setup includes an Apogee Duet 2, noisy Equator Audio D5s (concentric design), Slate VSX headphones, and Coincident Triumph Signature passive monitors. These monitors are too bulky for this area and will likely be relocated to my living room (I'll be starting a different thread to seek recommendations for an amp for these speakers). I primarily work in the box, and while some bass extension would be nice, it's not a crucial factor for me.

Regarding acoustic treatment and DSP, what types are you using? I’ve been relying on Slate VSX headphones, which effectively emulate speakers, and I find my mixes translate well. However, my main goal now is to find a quiet, decent set of speakers. I usually listen at around 70dB to stay mindful of my neighbors and my hearing health.

@dfuller I'll take a closer look at the Kali IN-5s.

 

[dfuller]

@ZolaIII Thank you for your advice. I've uploaded a sketch of my current room layout for a better understanding. The usable space is roughly 7 feet wide due to a cutout with a built-in bench and some shelves, and my desk placement is limited by windows and doors. I also find it uncomfortable to have my back facing the door, which influences my seating arrangement. Additionally, this space doubles as my office, storing both equipment and files.

My current setup includes an Apogee Duet 2, noisy Equator Audio D5s (concentric design), Slate VSX headphones, and Coincident Triumph Signature passive monitors. These monitors are too bulky for this area and will likely be relocated to my living room (I'll be starting a different thread to seek recommendations for an amp for these speakers). I primarily work in the box, and while some bass extension would be nice, it's not a crucial factor for me.

Regarding acoustic treatment and DSP, what types are you using? I’ve been relying on Slate VSX headphones, which effectively emulate speakers, and I find my mixes translate well. However, my main goal now is to find a quiet, decent set of speakers. I usually listen at around 70dB to stay mindful of my neighbors and my hearing health.

@dfuller I'll take a closer look at the Kali IN-5s.

View attachment 365707

I'll be honest - this is about as close to as bad of placement as you could get. I think you may be better off turning the desk 90 degrees so it's up against the wall where the door is - that way at least you're going to not have the worst interference from every possible direction...

Treatment in here would be rough to do - best bet is to get GIK absorbers on freestanding feet, I like the Monster Traps without the range limiter as general purpose broadbands.

 

[cutmix]

@dfuller Thanks for your honesty, and I appreciate your suggestions. I’ve tried positioning the desk against that wall—and just about every which way. I also had three 2'x4' 6" freestanding acoustic baffles made from rock wool in those setups, similar to the GIK traps you mentioned. However, I’ve realized that maintaining a comfortable and pleasant environment is more important to me, especially given the extensive hours I spend editing in that room. Facing that wall and shrinking the room further just made me feel claustrophobic.

Your feedback echoes my own initial doubts: the desk placement and room conditions are challenging, and high-end monitors are unlikely to significantly improve the situation. I've found a suitable solution in mixing with my headphones for now, and I’m considering a smaller pair of speakers for non-critical sound duties like editing. For my work, having monitors that operate silently (no hiss) is crucial. Could you possibly point me in the direction of a set of monitors known for their quiet performance?

 

[Ron Texas]

Maybe use headphones all the time.
For budget monitors consider JBL 305P

 

[ZolaIII]

I use JRiver on windows PC and WDM driver along with cuple of VST plugins (phase, convolver). Guess you are on OSX where I don't know much about software, obviously same VST's will work on it with DAW's that suport them so you could use same + PEQ one but it's a bit complicated to have it set multiple time's i'i different editing software. Neumann's are very good regarding self noise and space or better say lack of it is definitely a problem. Don't know anything about their correction software. Put a thick curtains on that window behind you. Well placement doesn't look all that bad, nor does the geometry plenty of room behind speakers and some behind you so back to front refractions shouldn't be bad rest you can correct. How about speaker stands behind the desk so you get both more space on it and avoid refractions from it (most part)? Anyway seams menagable.
From budget oriented there are already mentioned JBL's and as no one did mention Kali LP 6 V2's neither of them is very quiet but they won't be noisy either as you will use balanced XLR connections anyhow. If stands are option then you can go and with larger speakers either Neumann's like KH120 II or 8" budget one's that way you get more bass extension without complicating things much and lower THD as you won't be running them all that hard. Breaker as usual is equal loudness compensation as there is no stand alone plugin for it (to my knowledge, there is ALSA Linux one and not exactly self stand) and it does make a big difference. Tho you can comment to the listening SPL level with EQ (bass shelf), neighbors won't like it anyway (as it's bass boost).

 

[anphex]

Given the size and budget restraints, I have trouble to see anything else than a Kali IN8 V2 worthwhile. Genelec 8341 or 8351 would be perfect but they're far beyond your budget. Given the placement, I think a point source speaker would be optimal.

 

[ZolaIII]

If you can fit 8“ one's on the stands try to find good old JBL LSR2328P's which are smaller brother's of JBL LSR-4328P which had built in room correction and DSP. LSR2328P come with passive crossovers but very good Butterwort based one, come with dual A-B class amp's and will be rather quiet, wave guide for tweater and so on. They are back from JBL quality day's and before today budget one's. Discontinued for some time but you can find them as new with limited warranty (original whose 5 years) for a good price and they will serve you good and for a long time. Anyway that's a quality budget proposition from my side and better than Yamaha HS8 in many regards.

 

[rynberg]

You need to turn your desk 180 degrees so the speakers can fire into the length of the room. At some point, you need to have a workable setup to produce a decent product

 

[ZolaIII]

You need to turn your desk 180 degrees so the speakers can fire into the length of the room. At some point, you need to have a workable setup to produce a decent product

Nope back to front refractions are bigger concern (ISO 3382-1) and it's on the room longer side as it is so room first refraction peak will be at about 38 Hz which is low enough to be used as reinforcement, controled of course.

 

[Waxx]

The JBL hiss also. small Genelecs or Neumanns don't his, just like passive speakers don't hiss neighter. Hissing is mostly caused by using not well filtered cheap class D amplfiers in active speakers.

I've mixed for years on older and relative cheap Tannoy Reveal (with LM3886 chip based amps) that were dead silent when there was no signal. Many older monitors used this cheap but good class AB chipamp system with good results. Yamaha monitors are also like that. They are dead silent because of the older class AB amp systems they use. I don't like their sound (personal preference probally), but they are silent.

Focal monitors used to be dead silent also. But i did not use a model of the last decade so i don't know how it is now.

 

[Rõlnnbacke]

Genelec 8010A maybe? 698 US$/pair. Cute little monitors for a very small room, possibly good enough for 70 dB. Perhaps with a subwoofer added in the future.

 

[rynberg]

Nope back to front refractions are bigger concern (ISO 3382-1) and it's on the room longer side as it is so room first refraction peak will be at about 38 Hz which is low enough to be used as reinforcement, controled of course.

You think that's a bigger problem than his current arrangement??? A modal issue at low frequencies is pretty minor compared to the mess his current LP is in.

 

[ZolaIII]

You think that's a bigger problem than his current arrangement??? A modal issue at low frequencies is pretty minor compared to the mess his current LP is in.

Yes that's a biggest issue in any small room so you put speakers to the wall behind them as the next best thing to do. In this case they are far from it and let it stay like that instead making a bigger problem out of it (ISO 3382-1 early-to-late arriving sound energy, problematic in lows particularly). And make direct one stand out more. A room mode refraction is always present and first fundamental and following two (it's harmonics in the large part) will remain the same if you rotate 180° it's length influenced. Again you do best you can and use it for reinforcement not killing it entirely but making energy brust (spectral in waterfal) there more in line with smaller other room influenced one's. You use combination of VBA with negative responses in FIR wav and then PEQ the rest (to 1~3 KHz as good you can and Q filter is relevant factor of 50) and if need be slope down highs future more. That's about it.
Edit: you can play with the phase after that but if done correct so far you won't mess impulse response (decay, pre ringing, mismatch between L & R as you do the match and both FIR and PEQ are done minimal phase...) in the first place so that's more mandatory or if such problems occurred.

 

[lewis]

Genelec 8320 or 8330 with GLM is my choice for a small room.

 

[cutmix]

Wow, thank you all for the fantastic (albeit somewhat contradictory) suggestions! I deeply appreciate each response.

While I prefer to maintain my current desk arrangement for the time being, I am open—and quite curious—to experiment with different placements using REW once I get new speakers. Pairing Genelec 8010As with a subwoofer is particularly intriguing. The Kali IN-5s also look great, but at 19lb/each, I'm not stoked about putting these on speaker stand with a young active child around the house. Opting for smaller monitors with a sub on the floor seems like a safer alternative.

I’m also considering the iLoud MTM monitors with their built-in DSP calibration. Their compact size, combined with Amir’s positive review of their performance at moderate volumes, makes them a promising option. Any thoughts?

 

[Multicore]

Let me restate - given that I primarily use headphones for monitoring in a suboptimal, small, untreated room, would it be wiser to invest in the very best monitors possible under these conditions, or should I save money and opt for a "good enough" set of speakers, reallocating funds to other essential tools?

Given that you primarily use headphones, what are the loudspeakers for?