News flash: First " new fundamental technology in audio since the 1970's"

[egellings]

Genuflect when you say that.

 

[mhardy6647]

And timing of course. But as we know, time costs money.

Time is money. Einstein demonstrated this.

 

[Norv]

The page is full of typos and basic readability mistakes, I've messages them and offered to point them out, in return for compensation obviously! I'll post my review of the system when it arrives!

 

[Cbdb2]

Wow, Mark says hes the first to come up with 1meg input impedance. Something nobody else has ever tried. Wait everyone's tried it and discovered its a huge mistake. Its a great way to increase the noise of the input signal. This is EE 101 and Mark Levinson has failed. And he's a liar, 1meg input impedances have been around since at least the first guitar amp!

Another pile that uses snake oil to make the product worse.

 

[Martin]

I can't find anything about this new technology outside the market speak of Daniel Hertz website. Wondering if anyone here has an inkling what they're on about?

"Mark Levinson and his team of Daniel Hertz audio engineers have developed a new class of audio chips with embedded C-wave (continuous wave) software called Mighty Cat. Mighty Cat, combined with new Daniel Hertz audio architecture and speakers, are the first products to deliver the experience of pure analog from any digital source, including streaming"


Heck of a deal for $200,000

M1 System (Maria 800 with M1 Reference Speakers Audio System) – Daniel Hertz S.r.l.

Maria 800 Daniel Hertz Mighty Cat™ Audio Chip with C-Wave. Digital Audio Conversion. Pre-Amplifier. 4 Channels designed for Bi-Amplification Headphone amplifier. 350 Watts per channel (8 ohms). 500 Watts per channel (4 ohms). Custom Daniel Hertz speaker terminals. Hand-built mirror black finish...

danielhertz.com

Love the pricing:
$199,999.99 or 12 payments of $16,666.66

Convenient monthly payments just in case you can't swing the 200k up front.

 

[Prana Ferox]

I watched C-waves glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate

 

[sarumbear]

Daniel Hertz Mighty Cat™ Audio Chip

If they use the word chip as it means they are planning to sell a lot of those amplifiers. Chip development is expensive and you can’t have a small-run.

 

[Cbdb2]

At $200k each how many chips do you need to sell? I dont trust anything the lia... ah marketers say. And I would be surprised if they actually fully developed a dsp chip. Probably programmed an available "chip".
And maybe there is no magic chip, since it doesn't do anything useful.

 

[Killingbeans]

I smell FPGA, but I could be wrong.

 

[JStewart]

Ahh, Dick Hertz. When I lived in the Boston area, I knew a Dick Hertz from Holden, just a bit north of Worcester.

I don’t know if you’re joking, but there actually is (or was) a real Richard Hurtz from Holden. I know because he was an employee back in the 80s.

And now back to the even more ridiculous discussion about magic c waves…

 

[antcollinet]

I've messages them

Really?

 

[antcollinet]

If they use the word chip as it means they are planning to sell a lot of those amplifiers. Chip development is expensive and you can’t have a small-run.

I'm guessing fpga

EDIT: Ninjad by @Killingbeans

 

[thewas]

It is weird that this company belongs to Mark Levinson which is a Harman brand and not typical snake oil.

 

[mhardy6647]

I believe it belongs to Mark Levinson the guy -- who's been divorced from (so to speak) his early, eponymous company for a long time AFAIK.
Sort of like the littered landscape of erstwhile Bob Carver companies over the years.

 

[sarumbear]

I believe it belongs to Mark Levinson the guy -- who's been divorced from (so to speak) his early, eponymous company for a long time AFAIK.
Sort of like the littered landscape of erstwhile Bob Carver companies over the years.

And most likely is barred from using his name on an audio company that he starts.

 

[mhardy6647]

And most likely is barred from using his name on an audio company that he starts.

Almost certainly so, I would think.
Didn't he (ML the guy) have a company called Red Rose or something like that?

I'm guessing fpga

EDIT: Ninjad by @Killingbeans

Yeah, once I knew what that meant* -- that would be my expectation, as well.
I mean, heck, they coulda epoxy potted a Raspberry Pi and silkscreened an obliquely evocative and whimsically vague** product name on it -- and probably improved their profit margin even further.

_____________
* I thought FGPA was a web initialism like FOMO -- 'til I looked it up.
** Like Mighty Cat or whatever it is.

 

[Deleted member 48437]

This video should help you if you've not already seen it. Very well worth the watch, and fully answers how that question has already been answered - since before digital audio existed:

As an EE, I would like to offer an editorial. This video is a great explanation of dither. A best example is when we used it in the 1980’s insurance headquarters where 50 desks were typing. The noise was unnerving at times, especially with migraines or poor sleep. The solution was to inject white noise. This white noise reduced the difference between the loudest typewriter noise and the ambient noise which is best described as nothingness. Of course, truly it isn’t nothing because even ventilation fans make some noise. If dithering is injected into the room such as speakers playing some off-radio station hiss then the floor noise (not to be confused with the building floor) then the difference between the maximum sinusoidal peak (volume) and the perception of the lowest volume is decreased. At the end of the day people could not hear as well when they got home but what did we care.
The pro’s of this video is a great presentation, a convincing educator with a bunch of cool stuff every geek would want in his garage. There are con’s when this video gets outside of dithering and I will save the best for last. So, the cons: (1) where does the stair step in a digital sinusoidal wave come from. It comes from 0 and 1. If we take everything in terms of digital 0 and 1 there are stair steps. But with an old analog oscilloscope it cannot be seen due to the resolution of the machine. Without the sinusoidal wave being high enough (loud enough) our typanic membranes would not move. The ossicles of the middle ear would not vibrate and the 8th cranial nerve that transmits impulses to the temporal lobe would be silent.
In this analog scope the frequency can be seen relative to time. However, there is a third dimension, a Z dimension that is not measured and just like all background noise (e.g. cassette tape hiss) this interferes with the “hearing” of the whole sinusoidal signal. More of this in the end.
Of most worthy comment is that the scope is meant to show the rough shape of the wave per unit time. It does not show what makes up that wave. There are harmonics, studio noise, instruments out of tune and farther away (minimal time delay) that all go into making what the analog scope can only show as a sinusoidal wave. It does not rise to the level of digital resolution.
The true genius is not in our measurement and blending of source signal and dithering but the applied mathematicians who can use quantization, 1 and zero and create the mathematics that end up being manipulated by mixing and recording machines. Quantum physics sound simple, where is the electron most likely to be in the electron cloud at any one time. This is undergraduate level science. To be able to use that to make lock and key encryption or Google and IBM quantum computers, with their added software, is so much beyond a bachelors degree as it gets. In this video the man, and myself, are at the bachelors level. As Dr. Neil de Grass famously says, “The danger is knowing a bit about something but not enough to know you are wrong”. Probably, these applied physical mathematicians are too busy than to comment on audio forums.
So far, we have spoken about floor noise and how dithering affects it. Next bit count. The video author is quite right on all explanations. The higher the bit count the cleaner the signal and the less floor noise we need.
Ok, I promised the best for last. What is noise, sound, music to our ears? Is it sound waves that can be seen on an analog scope that is meant for broad strokes of an electrical signal all the way up to hundreds of incoming volts? Is sound a nice pair of speakers? Is it listening to recordings that are recorded prior to 1978 when digital remastering went into use? Why do some people like listening to records, tube amplifiers and their older McIntosh amps. Why are some of the class d amps good sounding but the music just becomes irritating after a while. U may notice that u loved the Eagles. Bruce or Rhiana. Perhaps u can only listen to Rhiana for so long. I can. Some days yes and some days no. It digital, those days are more. Do u expect to see a digital signal on an analog scope that displays an overall sinusoidal (or square wave)? The resolution needs to be thousands of times more. So more that it takes a computer program to see.
Enter into my long awaited piste. Music and sound is only important with perception in the temporal lobe of the brain and one of 4 types of brain waves we have, theta for relaxation being the most applicable here. If digital vs analog were measured in 1,000 subjects, we call this number N, then regression analysis could tell us which one of the 4 waves is varied and by how much, multifunctional analysis and regression towards the mean. There is a really interesting phenomenon. When two people are touching, such as holding hands, their brain EEG signals change time to go in-sync. I’ve often wondered if this same occurs in some animals more than others such as humans petting dogs. It is relaxing and the dogs love it too. When was the last time you called a car out, by name, amongst a group of cats and it came to be pet All 5 minutes?
In summary, digital cannot be measured on an analog scope. It just doesn’t have the resolution. I am now a spine surgeon and not smart enough to speak about applied mathematics. Einstein was one of those people along with Maxwell, the folks at Fermi Lab and the quantum computer manipulation scientists of today. Sorry, there are other people today in similar and dissimilar professions that I do not know enough about to give proper credit to. An audio engineer just takes their work and mixes their products. No offense intended to audio engineers. Take, “Take me to church” by Hooser. Look at how a radio station audio engineer changed that song. Look how the engineer made that Diamonds on your Maybeck song did for that singer whose name I cannot remember.
Mark Levison, a great audio designer who hires good electronics engineers around him. In any hi-fi world we all know the name Levinson. Of the current generation, how many know who Neil Armstrong was and how many would say it is the elliptical orbit of the earth that creates seasons.
Measure brain waves and not oscilloscopes for the truest measure of digital vs analog signals.

 

[Deleted member 48437]

Respect gentlemen, respect. BTW, those who think Levinson designed Red Rose Music, pictured beside a Chinese knock off, do not know the history. Here is the truth as Mr. Levinson told me himself:

Red Rose Music was a NY retail store concept (like an Apple Store) dedicated to quality audio for more people. It was destroyed by 9/11 when terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center.

It was also damaged by the vacuum tube amplifier division. Their equipment had a high failure rate and in the end they refused to give schematics and service info to anyone - totally irresponsible and hurtful behavior.

 

[fpitas]

As an EE, I would like to offer an editorial. This video is a great explanation of dither. A best example is when we used it in the 1980’s insurance headquarters where 50 desks were typing. The noise was unnerving at times, especially with migraines or poor sleep. The solution was to inject white noise. This white noise reduced the difference between the loudest typewriter noise and the ambient noise which is best described as nothingness. Of course, truly it isn’t nothing because even ventilation fans make some noise. If dithering is injected into the room such as speakers playing some off-radio station hiss then the floor noise (not to be confused with the building floor) then the difference between the maximum sinusoidal peak (volume) and the perception of the lowest volume is decreased. At the end of the day people could not hear as well when they got home but what did we care.
The pro’s of this video is a great presentation, a convincing educator with a bunch of cool stuff every geek would want in his garage. There are con’s when this video gets outside of dithering and I will save the best for last. So, the cons: (1) where does the stair step in a digital sinusoidal wave come from. It comes from 0 and 1. If we take everything in terms of digital 0 and 1 there are stair steps. But with an old analog oscilloscope it cannot be seen due to the resolution of the machine. Without the sinusoidal wave being high enough (loud enough) our typanic membranes would not move. The ossicles of the middle ear would not vibrate and the 8th cranial nerve that transmits impulses to the temporal lobe would be silent.
In this analog scope the frequency can be seen relative to time. However, there is a third dimension, a Z dimension that is not measured and just like all background noise (e.g. cassette tape hiss) this interferes with the “hearing” of the whole sinusoidal signal. More of this in the end.
Of most worthy comment is that the scope is meant to show the rough shape of the wave per unit time. It does not show what makes up that wave. There are harmonics, studio noise, instruments out of tune and farther away (minimal time delay) that all go into making what the analog scope can only show as a sinusoidal wave. It does not rise to the level of digital resolution.
The true genius is not in our measurement and blending of source signal and dithering but the applied mathematicians who can use quantization, 1 and zero and create the mathematics that end up being manipulated by mixing and recording machines. Quantum physics sound simple, where is the electron most likely to be in the electron cloud at any one time. This is undergraduate level science. To be able to use that to make lock and key encryption or Google and IBM quantum computers, with their added software, is so much beyond a bachelors degree as it gets. In this video the man, and myself, are at the bachelors level. As Dr. Neil de Grass famously says, “The danger is knowing a bit about something but not enough to know you are wrong”. Probably, these applied physical mathematicians are too busy than to comment on audio forums.
So far, we have spoken about floor noise and how dithering affects it. Next bit count. The video author is quite right on all explanations. The higher the bit count the cleaner the signal and the less floor noise we need.
Ok, I promised the best for last. What is noise, sound, music to our ears? Is it sound waves that can be seen on an analog scope that is meant for broad strokes of an electrical signal all the way up to hundreds of incoming volts? Is sound a nice pair of speakers? Is it listening to recordings that are recorded prior to 1978 when digital remastering went into use? Why do some people like listening to records, tube amplifiers and their older McIntosh amps. Why are some of the class d amps good sounding but the music just becomes irritating after a while. U may notice that u loved the Eagles. Bruce or Rhiana. Perhaps u can only listen to Rhiana for so long. I can. Some days yes and some days no. It digital, those days are more. Do u expect to see a digital signal on an analog scope that displays an overall sinusoidal (or square wave)? The resolution needs to be thousands of times more. So more that it takes a computer program to see.
Enter into my long awaited piste. Music and sound is only important with perception in the temporal lobe of the brain and one of 4 types of brain waves we have, theta for relaxation being the most applicable here. If digital vs analog were measured in 1,000 subjects, we call this number N, then regression analysis could tell us which one of the 4 waves is varied and by how much, multifunctional analysis and regression towards the mean. There is a really interesting phenomenon. When two people are touching, such as holding hands, their brain EEG signals change time to go in-sync. I’ve often wondered if this same occurs in some animals more than others such as humans petting dogs. It is relaxing and the dogs love it too. When was the last time you called a car out, by name, amongst a group of cats and it came to be pet All 5 minutes?
In summary, digital cannot be measured on an analog scope. It just doesn’t have the resolution. I am now a spine surgeon and not smart enough to speak about applied mathematics. Einstein was one of those people along with Maxwell, the folks at Fermi Lab and the quantum computer manipulation scientists of today. Sorry, there are other people today in similar and dissimilar professions that I do not know enough about to give proper credit to. An audio engineer just takes their work and mixes their products. No offense intended to audio engineers. Take, “Take me to church” by Hooser. Look at how a radio station audio engineer changed that song. Look how the engineer made that Diamonds on your Maybeck song did for that singer whose name I cannot remember.
Mark Levison, a great audio designer who hires good electronics engineers around him. In any hi-fi world we all know the name Levinson. Of the current generation, how many know who Neil Armstrong was and how many would say it is the elliptical orbit of the earth that creates seasons.
Measure brain waves and not oscilloscopes for the truest measure of digital vs analog signals.

Uh huh. They may be looking for salesman.

 

[Deleted member 48437]

“

The one responsible is Victor Tiscareno