After these works and conclusions on the early reflections much discussed, I think so. Otherwise it would not quote it.
I think that the work of Toole has necessarily opened a new paragdime in the design of rooms.
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Perceptual Effects of Room Reflections
- Thread starter amirm
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I think that the work of Toole has necessarily opened a new paragdime in the design of rooms.
tuga
Major Contributor
The LEDE Concept for the Control of Acoustic and Psychoacoustic Parameters in Recording Control Rooms
Don Davis (Synergetic Audio Concepts) and Chips Davis (Las Vegas Recording)
An approach to the standardized control room is found in the "live end-dead end" (LEDE TM) approach. Desirable features include control of the initial time delay, psychoacoustic removal of the directional clues belonging to the control room, and control of the early reflected sound field's density, spacing in time, and acoustic level. This results in an exceptionally neutral acoustic environment and allows development of a sound field at the mixer's ears which correlates remarkably with the sound field appearing at the microphones in the studio, thereby allowing precision judgments to be made at the mixing console.
Don Davis (Synergetic Audio Concepts) and Chips Davis (Las Vegas Recording)
An approach to the standardized control room is found in the "live end-dead end" (LEDE TM) approach. Desirable features include control of the initial time delay, psychoacoustic removal of the directional clues belonging to the control room, and control of the early reflected sound field's density, spacing in time, and acoustic level. This results in an exceptionally neutral acoustic environment and allows development of a sound field at the mixer's ears which correlates remarkably with the sound field appearing at the microphones in the studio, thereby allowing precision judgments to be made at the mixing console.
tuga
Major Contributor
First of all I find that Toole's reasearch methodology regarding the effects of early reflections is flawed and his interpretation of the data debatable if not outright incorrect.
I would add that control/mixing rooms and domestic listening rooms (perhaps also mastering suites) serve different purposes and the most fit for purpose approach for the former doesn't necessarily suit the latter and vice-versa.
completely agree with you on the second part of your answer.
I remember now, the famous African studio, BOB!
I visited The Manor while it was built. Tom was there and we talked about the design. The Manor certainly had a LEDE room. If Tom was not involved with the design he certainly was using it then. He mentioned Carolyn and David and I assumed the design is a collaboration. How do you know that it is not? It will be nice to correct my knowledge.
I very much disagree and so do most small room acousticians. Quite the contrary, many small room experts feel that Toole has brought in confusion.
The idea that side wall reflections could be prefereably with some music if they were arriving sufficiently late in time combined with a speaker with uniform directivity was well known long before Toole studies. However, preferences and accuracy are two different things and shouldn't be mixed.
If absolutely accuracy is desired, side wall reflections need to be attenuated. Even when they arrive as late as after 8-10 ms, they will have a negative effect on areas like clarity, intelligbillity, localization and tonality. Something that's not desirable in studios where you want the hear the recorded signal as accurate as possible.
Whether you choose to do something else in a hifi room is of course entirely different. But preferences will vary and depend on areas like music material, mood of the day and how the rest of the room is treated.
By the way, Toole never conducted his studies with quality diffusion, thus it says very little about preferences too with various acoustic treatment. It's not a surprise that listeners will prefer a late arriving side wall contribution when the rear of the room is highly absorptive or the rest of the room is absorptive! That's a no brainer, since the room has been made dead and not psychoacoustical preferable.
tuga
Major Contributor
At times it reads as if Toole set out to prove that his preference (for side-wall early reflections) was the majority's preference.
Unfortunately many deify Tooel's work and are thus unable to assess it critically.
I agree.
tuga
Major Contributor
I think that Philip Newell mentions The Manor in the piece I uploaded earlier. It's been a while since I last read it.I remember now, the famous African studio, BOB!
I visited The Manor while it was built. Tom was there and we talked about the design. The Manor certainly had a LEDE room. If Tom was not involved with the design he certainly was using it then. He mentioned Carolyn and David and I assumed the design is a collaboration. How do you know that it is not? It will be nice to correct my knowledge.
What constitutes quality diffusion? I suspect these panels I just got with the 2d pattern on them won’t qualify.
Stereo errors? Please elaborate.
Se e.g. #146
tuga
Major Contributor
Yes, this one in particular. Reflections do mitigate those errors.Possibly this:
An even polar measurement, sufficiently broadband for the job and correct type. 2Ds are generally the wrong kind for stereo, psycoacoustically speaking. In a theater where sound needs to spread to many listeners and at different heights, it can however be the right unit.
Just like one should never buy a speaker without having seen polar plots, the same goes for diffusers. After all, the job of the diffuser is to distribute the sound evenly and not focus certain frequencies in certain directions. There's lot of bull here on the market and a lot of simple scattering units that in reality don't diffuse much.
My argument is that in produced music the mixer already fixed it.
That has been discussed as well. He question that follows: Is Toole and co wrong about the ideal speaker having a linear frequency response when evaluated in mono?
No why? You want that. It’s just your nose and physical situations that change that in stereo.
But the question is how was the music recorded and mixed? Did the mixer have a nose?
All research points to an ideally linear response of such a mono speaker when evaluated with typical stereo recordings. And yet the sound is different when you listen to the same in phantom stereo setup. So then is Toole wrong?
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