Problem with Genelec 8020D volume level

[EZ Meno]

I just received a pair of the Genelec 8020D. I'm driving them from Magni Heresy. The problem I'm having is that when I set the volume to comfortable level for the Genelecs and then plug in my headphones (AKG Q701), the headphones are much quiter than the speakers. So I need to turn the Heresy volume knob up to get the volume level I like. But then when I unplug the headphones, the Genelecs play super loud. I can't figure out how to make them more quiet relative to the headphones.
There is a little volume knob on the back side of the Genelecs, but its range seems very limited. I've turned it all the way down, but the speakers are still way too loud.
Am I doing something wrong or missing something? Is there no way to adjust the volume more on the Genelecs?
Is anybody else having this problem?

 

[jonfitch]

Well this seems to be a quality of life issue you are having. It seems to me the solution to your problem is to use separate pre-amps units for your headphones and speakers, or just a different pre-amp all together with different sensitivity values on the volume knob for headphones and speakers than you currently have.

 

[restorer-john]

I understand how annoying that would be. Typical these days where output levels are not considered for typical use scenarios. And as for input attenuators that only have a small range- what were Genelec thinking?

Hasn't the Heresy got a high/low gain switch? If it affects both the headphone and line outs then it's no help, but if it sensibly only affects the headphone stage it may help.

Otherwise you may need some inline attenuators for the Heresy outputs to the Genelecs.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Is anybody else having this problem?

No, you're not the only one tripping over this issue. An input level trim of only 12 dB is not uncommon in older active monitors in particular; one user here found the range provided by his Behringer 2031As inadequate as well, and I think Mackie HR824 are the same. (The only thing potentially even worse is the Focals with a fixed level.)

An input sensitivity adjustment of +6 dBu to -6 dBu for 100 dB SPL @ 1 m is standard for Genelec monitors, all the way from the 8x20 up to the 8x50 and 1032. (The 8010 is arguably even worse off, with the same -6 dBu max sensitivity and a -10 dB option, i.e. +4 dBu minimum. And the poor little thing is only good for like 96 dB SPL peak, so effectively it'll be maxing out at 0 dBu even then.) While this is arguably great when you've got a mix of a whole bunch of different models in the studio, when you've got just one pair you'll generally be sitting closer to the smaller models, so effectively they will be progressively hotter, increasingly restricting their dynamic range. (According to Correct Monitors, in order to hit 110 dB peak the 8320A will be at ~0.4 m, 8330A at 0.5 m, 8340A at ~1.1 m, 8350A at 1.5 m and 1032C at 2 m. Total spread in max level at 1 m is 14 dB.) This is the exact opposite from what it should be.

The good folks at Genelec could really do with a reevaluation of their input sensitivity settings. Why does an 8010A need to top out at -10 dBu by default? How many outputs are you going to run them from that can't even hit 0 dBu? (I can only think of a single audio interface, that's the Rode AI-1 @ -6 dBu. No idea what they were thinking.) A little more attention to input sensitivity and noise levels would really go a long way on their smaller models.

Now that said, there are many ways of resolving this situation. Short of buying some different monitors, getting a monitor controller would be another option.

 

[EZ Meno]

I understand how annoying that would be. Typical these days where output levels are not considered for typical use scenarios. And as for input attenuators that only have a small range- what were Genelec thinking?

Hasn't the Heresy got a high/low gain switch? If it affects both the headphone and line outs then it's no help, but if it sensibly only affects the headphone stage it may help.

Otherwise you may need some inline attenuators for the Heresy outputs to the Genelecs.

Yeah, I can't believe the range is so small. Is that some kind of a pro audio thing to make things unusable for any kind of consumer application? I think maybe Genelec earns a spot on the General Design Stupidity thread.
Heresy does have a gain switch, but it affects both headphones and preouts. The attenuators sound like a good option, but I'm leaning towards returning the speakers and getting something else.
Thanks!

 

[EZ Meno]

No, you're not the only one tripping over this issue. An input level trim of only 12 dB is not uncommon in older active monitors in particular; one user here found the range provided by his Behringer 2031As inadequate as well, and I think Mackie HR824 are the same. (The only thing potentially even worse is the Focals with a fixed level.)

An input sensitivity adjustment of +6 dBu to -6 dBu for 100 dB SPL @ 1 m is standard for Genelec monitors, all the way from the 8x20 up to the 8x50 and 1032. (The 8010 is arguably even worse off, with the same -6 dBu max sensitivity and a -10 dB option, i.e. +4 dBu minimum. And the poor little thing is only good for like 96 dB SPL peak, so effectively it'll be maxing out at 0 dBu even then.) While this is arguably great when you've got a mix of a whole bunch of different models in the studio, when you've got just one pair you'll generally be sitting closer to the smaller models, so effectively they will be progressively hotter, increasingly restricting their dynamic range. (According to Correct Monitors, in order to hit 110 dB peak the 8320A will be at ~0.4 m, 8330A at 0.5 m, 8340A at ~1.1 m, 8350A at 1.5 m and 1032C at 2 m. Total spread in max level at 1 m is 14 dB.) This is the exact opposite from what it should be.

The good folks at Genelec could really do with a reevaluation of their input sensitivity settings. Why does an 8010A need to top out at -10 dBu by default? How many outputs are you going to run them from that can't even hit 0 dBu? (I can only think of a single audio interface, that's the Rode AI-1 @ -6 dBu. No idea what they were thinking.) A little more attention to input sensitivity and noise levels would really go a long way on their smaller models.

Now that said, there are many ways of resolving this situation. Short of buying some different monitors, getting a monitor controller would be another option.

Thanks for your reply. I'm kind of new to all this, so I don't quite understand everything you said, but I think I get the point.
Would inline attenuators work, like @restorer-john suggested? I checked out some and seems like all the adjustable ones are with XLR connectors. To use those I would need additional cables/adapters and it just becomes a mess. I'm leaning to returning the speakers and getting something else.

 

[EZ Meno]

If I understand the controls on Neumann KH80 then looks like it has much more range.
Am I reading it right?

 

[Robonaut]

Yeah, I can't believe the range is so small. Is that some kind of a pro audio thing to make things unusable for any kind of consumer application? I think maybe Genelec earns a spot on the General Design Stupidity thread.

I feel your pain!

I just picked up a pair of 8030C monitors today. Imagine my shock when, even with the -6 db adjustment set on the back of the monitors, they were still way too loud for background listening.

This wasn't a problem with the 8030A monitors (which I also own). Those have an actual volume knob on the front that goes all the way down to zero. No idea why Genelec changed that. Well, maybe I have a small idea. I own multiple 8030As, and they all seem to require slightly different settings of the front volume knob to be level matched.

Maybe this will give me an excuse to buy a new DAC/preamp. The Parasound zpre that I'm currently using doesn't create an even stereo spread at very low volume levels. I'm wondering if something like a RME ADI-2 DAC would fix that...


Also, I don't think that the Genelec monitors that can use the GLM software have this problem because you can use the software to reduce their default volume.

 

[adg]

I just received a pair of the Genelec 8020D. I'm driving them from Magni Heresy. The problem I'm having is that when I set the volume to comfortable level for the Genelecs and then plug in my headphones (AKG Q701), the headphones are much quiter than the speakers. So I need to turn the Heresy volume knob up to get the volume level I like. But then when I unplug the headphones, the Genelecs play super loud. I can't figure out how to make them more quiet relative to the headphones.
There is a little volume knob on the back side of the Genelecs, but its range seems very limited. I've turned it all the way down, but the speakers are still way too loud.
Am I doing something wrong or missing something? Is there no way to adjust the volume more on the Genelecs?
Is anybody else having this problem?

Are you turning the sensitivity to -6db or +6db?

 

[daftcombo]

I advise you to throw a Little Bear MC2 in the chain, between the DAC and the Gennies.

It's what I have between the Topping E30 and the 8030C.

30$, passive pre-amp (no electricity required), RCA/XLR in, RCA/XLR out with selectors, volume knob.

 

[EZ Meno]

Are you turning the sensitivity to -6db or +6db?

+6db. It's less loud that way. That's counterintuitive for a non-pro like me, but I guess there a good explanation. Do you know why is -6db louder than +6db?

 

[EZ Meno]

I advise you to throw a Little Bear MC2 in the chain, between the DAC and the Gennies.

It's what I have between the Topping E30 and the 8030C.

30$, passive pre-amp (no electricity required), RCA/XLR in, RCA/XLR out with selectors, volume knob.

That would solve the problem, but means more boxes and more cables. I'd like to avoid that if possible.
Thanks for the tip!

 

[q3cpma]

Honestly, it's strange to expect the same volume from devices with completely different sensitivities, which is why a lot of pro interfaces have a separate volume knob for headphones.

+6db. It's less loud that way. That's counterintuitive for a non-pro like me, but I guess there a good explanation.

Because that's how many input dBu produces 100 dB SPL at 1 m.

 

[EZ Meno]

Because that's how many input dBu produces 100 dB SPL at 1 m.

Thanks, that makes sense. I just don't understand why not have more range in the volume control, like +20..-20. Wouldn't that make the speaker more user friendly even for the pro community? Would it affect the sound quality?

 

[q3cpma]

Thanks, that makes sense. I just don't understand why not have more range in the volume control, like +20..-20. Wouldn't that make the speaker more user friendly even for the pro community? Would it affect the sound quality?

My understanding is that this knob isn't here to completely replace any preamp, only to account for differences between balanced and unbalanced typical voltages.

 

[Sancus]

serious question: What good is a preamp with a headphone out that doesn't support different gain levels for headphones and speakers? Isn't that, like, the whole point? How likely is it that those two completely different products will have similar sensitivities in the first place?

 

[EZ Meno]

I'm just frustrated about spending a lot of money on speakers and having this kind of an issue. In all other aspects I love them. They feel super solid and the look is timeless, beautiful industrial design, the sparkly grey color is fantastic. And they sound great.
I feel like I'm on a rant mode, so let me rant some more. Regarding the Magni Heresy:
From Amir's review (bolding is mine): " The Heresy has a nice red LED indicating if the power is on or not. The Magni 3+ does not. Why? Half the time I could not tell if the Magni 3+ was on or not." Well, it's worse than that. It seems SOME Heresy units have the LED indicator and some don't. My unit does not, or at least not on the front panel. There is a LED, but it is inside on the circuit board! I have to look through the vent holes on the top to see if it's on! Why not put it on the front panel??? Maybe they thought that the red LED inside makes a nice hellish glow through the vent holes to indicate when the unit is on. That would be a cute idea, but the implementation is a failure. The circuit borad itself is red and no matter if the unit is on or off, you see red through the holes, at least if you have lights on in the room.
Oh, and the Modi 3+ that I also bought, does not work with Windows 7 that I have on my laptop. But that's not a major problem, since I'm planning to get a new laptop soon anyway.

 

[restorer-john]

serious question: What good is a preamp with a headphone out that doesn't support different gain levels for headphones and speakers? Isn't that, like, the whole point? How likely is it that those two completely different products will have similar sensitivities in the first place?

Most proper preamplifiers of the past offered the ability to separately switch on and off the output, which essentially means you don't get the problem the OP is getting where he pulls out the headphones and blasts himself through the Genelecs.

Few preamplifiers offered individual headphone and main output controls, but yes, some did.

My suggestion of a pair of inline attentuators would solve the issue, keep costs low and prevent him needing to send stuff back that he seems to like. If he is reasonably handy with a soldering iron, he could make a pair easily enough with a pair of inline rca plugs and inline sockets, four resistors and a bit of tube/heatshrink tubing.

https://www.instructables.com/Homemade-RCA-Attenuator/

 

[EZ Meno]

If he is reasonably handy with a soldering iron, he could make a pair easily enough with a pair of inline rca plugs and inline sockets, four resistors and a bit of tube/heatshrink tubing.
https://www.instructables.com/Homemade-RCA-Attenuator/

I think I'd better go with off the shelf attenuators or get a Little Bear MC2 . If I tried the DIY route I would look something like your profile picture. I tried soldering a disconnected wire on my headphones recently and all I got was a lot of smoke.

 

[restorer-john]

Or something like this:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Line-Le...m3b54d825dc:g:C3wAAOSwRPVf9PmK&frcectupt=true