Review and Measurements of Totaldac d1-six DAC

[daftcombo]

I fear that my scarlett 2i4 may have better measurements... Or not much worse at least. 150$ card with decent adc.
Not really but are this really the worst measurements here.
This time I really can't believe what i'm seeing.

Scarletts have good measurements:
https://johnr.hifizine.com/2012/09/focusrite-scarlett-2

 

[amirm]

I mentioned it before, there should have been more roll off at 20kHz for a NOS DAC at 44.1k sampling. Is the FIR OFF not really OFF?

There is no filter 8n this dac.

 

[amirm]

I mentioned it before, there should have been more roll off at 20kHz for a NOS DAC at 44.1k sampling. Is the FIR OFF not really OFF?

There is no filter on this dac.

 

[gvl]

There is no filter on this dac.

There should be -3dB droop at 20kHz due to the sinc envelope, yet you measured only -0.6dB. Something is compensating.

 

[Soniclife]

There is no filter on this dac.

I think he was implying that the eq adjustment is not totally defeated in the off position.

 

[gvl]

I think he was implying that the eq adjustment is not totally defeated in the off position.

Xactly...

 

[FredYves]

Well. I discovered audioscience some months back and I like it a lot. Thanks to the reports, I have bought a RME ADI2 and other stuff. I like the RME very much. It happens that I am also the owner of several other DAC, like Chord Hugo 2 and since some years ... a TotalDac. I also know a bit Vincent Brient the designer of TotalDac (yes, I am leaving in France). This guy is not graduated in marketing but electronics. It may be the case that my ears and brains are confused because of the price I paid, but I prefer the Chord to the RME and the TotalDac to the Chord. And I have nothîng against science.

 

[daftcombo]

Well. I discovered audioscience some months back and I like it a lot. Thanks to the reports, I have bought a RME ADI2 and other stuff. I like the RME very much. It happens that I am also the owner of several other DAC, like Chord Hugo 2 and since some years ... a TotalDac. I also know a bit Vincent Brient the designer of TotalDac (yes, I am leaving in France). This guy is not graduated in marketing but electronics. It may be the case that my ears and brains are confused because of the price I paid, but I prefer the Chord to the RME and the TotalDac to the Chord. And I have nothîng against science.

I live in France too.
The level of students in marketing is close to IQ=60 or less, and the level in electronics is low. Still engineer schools have to be full every year.

Tell me how a product can be designed "selecting each part by ear" instead of for what they are supposed to do: transmit a clean signal... ?

Clean DACs reveal more flaws in bad recordings and more harshness in bad speakers.

 

[diegooo1972]

@FredYves With this TotalDac you are adding some kind of effects on the original sound. Maybe you like it but it's not fidelity. It's something else.
Because the sound is not really like the original once processed by this DAC.
It's more like adding some kind of effect that you like then audio fidelity.

 

[gvl]

Can we get a sense of the IR this contraption produces, with FIR ON and OFF?

 

[bunkbail]

Can we get a 1kHz square wave response as well? Just curious, as most R2R NOS DACs often does well on this metric.

 

[FredYves]

Previous answers make me smile a bit. True that I was astonished with the poor measurements and I am very confident of the seriousness and value of audioscience and Amir. I am usually more on the maths and hard science side by learning and profession. But some comments are « too much ». So I am sharing a point of view based on my experience. Maybe my ears and brains have been confused since years, but when I moved from previous systems (Linn, Naim etc) to TotalDac, I heard more from TotalDac. You can say it creates defects I like but it is what it is. RME which measures so well is very good but I am not « experiencing » the music the same way. I even prefer the Chord H2 a bit more vs RME because of the same. And I bought all of them, and now I really don’t care that the most costly should give the best. I am conscious of all these discussions about science vs perception, but I still have the same perception / emotions (+ space +positioning of instruments +rythm +...): more with TotalDac just a bit less with others.
I am in parallel very much eager to discover new things, eg with Okto Research as well as Matrix Audio. In the opposite, I experienced too much issues with Topping’s products.
Would be interesting to get a feedback from Vincent Brient himself about the way he measures his products.

 

[Kervel]

My first post here and I want to thank Amir for doing such a fantastic job!!

However, I do have a more critical question: In your listening test you write "Despite all the flaws in the measured performance of d1-six, audible effects are subtle to non-existent." Why then this forums focus on excellent measured performance? Apparently a SINAD of 86 (TotalDac) is all we need, despite all the harmonic and intermediation distortion.

 

[daftcombo]

My first post here and I want to thank Amir for doing such a fantastic job!!

However, I do have a more critical question: In your listening test you write "Despite all the flaws in the measured performance of d1-six, audible effects are subtle to non-existent." Why then this forums focus on excellent measured performance? Apparently a SINAD of 86 (TotalDac) is all we need, despite all the harmonic and intermediation distortion.

I might be wrong but for me, one of the goals of this forum is to show that one can have performance as good with a 60$ DAC than with a 6.000$ one.

 

[Kervel]

I might be wrong but for me, one of the goals of this forum is to show that one can have performance as good with a 60$ DAC than with a 6.000$ one.

Fully agreed! The cheapest DAC which satisfies ones needs ( connectivity, usage, looks) is sufficient. But the forum also has a strong focus on the state of the art, which seems, well, utterly inaudible.

 

[diegooo1972]

Maybe 60 is a little low but between 200 and 400 is quite different. And of course the price is not a quality measure.
High end audio is not an easy task like evaluating a sport car in a track where the faster car is certainly better.
And also in a sport car price range from 100k to 2 billion sometime.
And the price still don't grant best track performance.
In double blind tests people recognize certain equipments only 50% of the times. Just like flipping a coin.
That's a fact.
The goal in this forum seems to me to point also in room management then only measurements.
Moving speakers for example generate much more differences in the sound then comparing a 400 buck dac and 6k buck dac.
And everybody can hear that difference also in double blind test.
What people prefers is a completely different fact.

 

[amirm]

However, I do have a more critical question: In your listening test you write "Despite all the flaws in the measured performance of d1-six, audible effects are subtle to non-existent." Why then this forums focus on excellent measured performance? Apparently a SINAD of 86 (TotalDac) is all we need, despite all the harmonic and intermediation distortion.

Simple reason is that my testing may not apply to all content, all people and all situations.

You may for example have better high frequency hearing than my aging ears. You may play content that is more revealing. Or inversely, you may not have as good an acuity as I have. Logic then says we should have a good bit of margin above and beyond what I can detect as to apply to just about everyone.

We also know that once we get to a level of measurement perfection, we can prove transparency is achieved for all people. You often see me stating this as provably transparent in my reviews. This can be achieved today at 1/10th the cost of the DAC being reviewed. So I don't see a reason to not strive for it and sleep in peace.

All this said, yes, chances are most of you reading this forum will be fine with a SINAD of 80 dB or better.

 

[JohnYang1997]

they can try this video, for starters. skip to 3:15 for start of actual content of the video.

I have to say it's just a simple demonstration rather than the reality. It's close to reality and good enough for demonstration purpose but not 100% truth. There is distortion at different frequency.
There are intermodulation distortions that's different from error of single voltage level.
It's not more complex than test tones but definitely more than a single sine wave, or even at any single frequency.

 

[THW]

I have to say it's just a simple demonstration rather than the reality. It's close to reality and good enough for demonstration purpose but not 100% truth.

oh i do agree, it is intended more as an easy to understand demonstration.

its more to point out the ridiculous notion that for some reason you can't engineer signals that are more challenging than music for the amplifier for measurements and performance testing. do people who believe this seriously think the countless engineers who are smarter than themselves that came up with these tests didn't think about this issue?

 

[JohnYang1997]

oh i do agree, it is intended more as an easy to understand demonstration.

its more to point out the ridiculous notion that for some reason you can't engineer signals that are more challenging than music for the amplifier for measurements and performance testing. do people who believe this seriously think the countless electrical engineers who are smarter than themselves didn't think about this issue?

Yeah I am with John on the main idea of the video. Everything can be measured.
I watched most of his videos and they are really calming to watch.