Sphere shaped speakers with CHN110 drivers

[DanielT]

Inspiring.

Also in this thread, speakers were built with Ikea Blanda Matt bamboo salad bowls. I think you got inspiration from that thread:

sphere shaped speakers

I've been asked to build sphere shaped speakers (passive). I did some research and found out that some consider this shape as the worst and some thinks it’s the best… anyway, I decides to move on with this project knowing that this one won't win any audiophile awards but hopefully will look good...

audiosciencereview.com

You can also build a classic two-way speaker with a sphere shape, like this one:


Very good Purifi drivers in that speaker and it measures really well. Whether you think it's worth the money that the Sun Audio Purified 4 speakers cost plus having to buy a multichannel DAC, DSP and 4-channel amplification to make it work is another matter:

Sun Audio Purified 4

I was contacted by the manufacturer and he gave me the spinorama for this speaker: Purified 4. "The measurements are performed by IFAA in Germany within the following semi-anechoic class-1 chamber: https://ifaa-akustik.de/en/the-institute/technical-facilities/". As the name implies that's a 4...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[ppataki]

Let's see the corrected measurements

NOTE: I am battling with the 'Exclamation mark/Imprecise measurement' issue in Dirac which means that it can correct the frequency response only (instead of correcting both the frequency and the phase response which is the normal behavior)

All measurements in MLP, approx. 250cm away from the speakers, L+R channels combined with the subwoofer, linear phase crossover at 80Hz, 24dB/octave slope)

Frequency response phase:

Distortion:

Step response:

IR:

Group delay:

Waterfall:

Wavelet:

I am pretty happy - these are keepers, definitely!

 

[ppataki]

This is for those who are interested in those kind of nitty-gritty details

I was playing around with various crossover settings, always at 80Hz:
- 24dB/oct minimum phase (using CraveEQ)
- 48dB/oct minimum phase (using CraveEQ)
- 24dB/oct linear phase (using thEQorange)

Pretty interesting results!
(note: all after Dirac)

Let's see the FR first

Based on this one would say that the difference is pretty negligible, right?

Now let's see some temporal graphs

Phase:

The difference is way more visible here, take a look at the huge difference (200-400 degrees) in the lows

Group delay:

With the minimum phase 48dB that huge peak at 90Hz goes negative but anywhere else the linear phase version wins by up to 13ms

Step response:

The pre-ringing is clearly visible (but not audible) with the linear phase crossover - huge difference otherwise

And finally the Wavelet:

Notice the difference in the Peak Energy Delay!

Overall, I was not expecting to see this amount of difference - it is really illuminating!

By listening to them it is definitely the LP version that sounds the tightest and most precise
I was hesitant to use previous LP crossover solutions since I could always hear the pre-ringing - thEQorange is the first plugin where I absolutely cannot hear it

I hope you find this useful - I am sure similar results could be achieved with other systems too

 

[ernestcarl]

The pre-ringing is clearly visible (but not audible) with the linear phase crossover - huge difference otherwise

It’s not really obvious or evident to me that something is ringing from just that plot — only that there’s a low-level early start possibly of the bass. It likely would be much easier visualize with a wavelet or Airy CWT 1/2 smoothing and Log SPL setting. But even then, sometimes pre-echo that is ‘significant’ or audible only occurs visually off-axis and so may not be obvious from a single-point spectrogram alone.

 

[ppataki]

At least based on my experience that swing actually shows pre-ringing
Whenever I go from minimum phase to linear phase (crossover) that swing appears and the deeper and wider it gets the more audible pre-ringing will be

For example if I move from 24dB/oct linear phase crossover to 48dB/oct linear phase crossover that swing will get much deeper and wider and I will definitely start hearing the pre-ringing.
So the smaller the swing is, the less chance you have to actually hear the pre-ringing

I have tried many linear phase solutions and so far this has the smallest/lowest swing (when using the same settings, ie. 24dB/oct slope)

 

[ernestcarl]

At least based on my experience that swing actually shows pre-ringing
Whenever I go from minimum phase to linear phase (crossover) that swing appears and the deeper and wider it gets the more audible pre-ringing will be

View attachment 352601

For example if I move from 24dB/oct linear phase crossover to 48dB/oct linear phase crossover that swing will get much deeper and wider and I will definitely start hearing the pre-ringing.
So the smaller the swing is, the less chance you have to actually hear the pre-ringing

I have tried many linear phase solutions and so far this has the smallest/lowest swing (when using the same settings, ie. 24dB/oct slope)

I understand that correlates with your experience. But it still does not necessarily = ringing.

Thomann Swissonic A305 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker Review

Thomann Swissonic A306 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

This is one of mine but unequivocably no ringing while either on- or off-axis at the listening couch:

I also have a version without any early amplitude smearing or that apparent visual 'pre-ringing' you mentioned visible in the step response or spectrogram at all, and the result is more or less expectedly the same -- no audible ringing. Notably, however, I've been able to create mixed phase xo with no obvious visual negative swing or early ripples in the step, but once tested produced audible pre-echo artifacts.

Ringing to me has to really 'ring' -- confirmed not only by visible pressure ripples but it also must be audible. Pre-echo, though, is a bit different to me in that it may not necessarily actually 'ring' though audibly may still sound like a 'whoop' or suck-out of sorts.

 

[ppataki]

Pre-echo, though, is a bit different to me in that it may not necessarily actually 'ring' though audibly may still sound like a 'whoop' or suck-out of sorts.

I guess I was using the wrong terminology - I was talking about pre-echo all the time
When the bass kicks sound like they are reversed - that's what I was referring to

 

[ppataki]

Paintjob is also done!
The spheres were painted to solid white (ultra matte using chalk paint) and the stands are satin ebony black (using so-called eggshell paint)

I guess this project can be considered finished

My next project is to create two more of these spheres to use them as rear speakers, replacing my current SB Acoustics 8" based rear speakers - that way I will have all four totally the same

 

[MAB]

Paintjob is also done!
The spheres were painted to solid white (ultra matte using chalk paint) and the stands are satin ebony black (using so-called eggshell paint)

View attachment 353545

I guess this project can be considered finished

My next project is to create two more of these spheres to use them as rear speakers, replacing my current SB Acoustics 8" based rear speakers - that way I will have all four totally the same

Remarkable.
You nailed the stand, it really matches the black frame/surround.

I might be worried that a Druid would cast an animation spell on them and do great harm.

But seriously, very nice looking. And thanks for the build thread in general. Great documentation and measurements. They do look like one of the best fullrange I have seen.

 

[ppataki]

Remarkable.

Thank you, really appreciated!

I might be worried that a Druid would cast an animation spell on them and do great harm.

LOL

I was thinking about this:

Maybe I will call this project the Spaceball-project

 

[ppataki]

...and finally the LED lighting:

New video by Peter Pataki

photos.app.goo.gl

ps. the rear spheres are in progress, next week I will post pictures once they are fully finished and in place

 

[ppataki]

Some progress with the rear ones too:

One of them is fully done, the other one is in progress - hopefully by next week I will be able to mount them on the rear wall

 

[ppataki]

All four speakers are now completed!

I think it looks really futuristic
Feels like being in the Jetson family's living room

 

[Tim Link]

This is for those who are interested in those kind of nitty-gritty details

I was playing around with various crossover settings, always at 80Hz:
- 24dB/oct minimum phase (using CraveEQ)
- 48dB/oct minimum phase (using CraveEQ)
- 24dB/oct linear phase (using thEQorange)

Pretty interesting results!
(note: all after Dirac)

Let's see the FR first

View attachment 352509

Based on this one would say that the difference is pretty negligible, right?

Now let's see some temporal graphs

Phase:

View attachment 352510

The difference is way more visible here, take a look at the huge difference (200-400 degrees) in the lows

Group delay:

View attachment 352511

With the minimum phase 48dB that huge peak at 90Hz goes negative but anywhere else the linear phase version wins by up to 13ms

Step response:

View attachment 352512

The pre-ringing is clearly visible (but not audible) with the linear phase crossover - huge difference otherwise

And finally the Wavelet:

View attachment 352513

Notice the difference in the Peak Energy Delay!

Overall, I was not expecting to see this amount of difference - it is really illuminating!

By listening to them it is definitely the LP version that sounds the tightest and most precise
I was hesitant to use previous LP crossover solutions since I could always hear the pre-ringing - thEQorange is the first plugin where I absolutely cannot hear it

I hope you find this useful - I am sure similar results could be achieved with other systems too

Can you explain better for me what's happening with the spectrogram? Is this processing delay time for the different filters?

 

[ppataki]

Can you explain better for me what's happening with the spectrogram? Is this processing delay time for the different filters?

For me there are three things there to see:
- the post-ringing is much lower with the LP filter vs the MP filters
- the pre-ringing is higher with the LP filter (not audible though)
- the Peak Energy curve is way lower (=less delay in the low frequencies) with the LP filter vs with the MP filters

 

[Ron Texas]

This is an extremely ingenious adaption of materials to a new use.

 

[Tim Link]

- the Peak Energy curve is way lower (=less delay in the low frequencies) with the LP filter vs with the MP filters

They all have a huge delay, equivalent to about 7 feet to up to 20 feet or so. How is that happening? I've never seen a passive network create a spectrogram that looks that far off.

 

[ppataki]

They all have a huge delay, equivalent to about 7 feet to up to 20 feet or so. How is that happening? I've never seen a passive network create a spectrogram that looks that far off.

I have always been under the impression that having a 5-6ms bass delay on this curve (with the settings I used) is extremely good
Or actually anything around or below 10ms can be considered really great
I am happy to stand corrected though

My settings:

Would be cool to see other systems' graph with this same settings

EDIT: I am sure the room plays an extremely huge role here too.....

 

[312elements]

I have always been under the impression that having a 5-6ms bass delay on this curve (with the settings I used) is extremely good
Or actually anything around or below 10ms can be considered really great
I am happy to stand corrected though

My settings:

View attachment 365462

Would be cool to see other systems' graph with this same settings

EDIT: I am sure the room plays an extremely huge role here too.....

That plugin isn’t cheap, but appears to be worth it.