For electronics, which will 99 times out of 100 have the same flat FR, the louder component will win.
Average it and match at 500hz. Or use A weighting to calculate an accumulated energy value and match it that way.No question, about electronics. But sometimes I wonder if the same reasoning holds good when confronted by the spectacular trainwreck that is loudspeakers in rooms. When FRs look like mountain ranges, what does level matching even mean? For electronics, we have a pretty good suite of tests and numbers, and we can rely on them. Past the far end of the speaker cables, we don't.
The suggestion is for matching speakers using bandpass limited pink noise 500 hz to 2000hz.There is no parameter called "sound quality", but let's simplify it to how loud a speaker can play and its tone, tone just meaning that parts of the FR are different.
I think one of the confusions might be to do with the otherwise straightforward words "quieter" and "louder". These are always frequency-specific when it comes to audio:
View attachment 68490
These are the last three speakers measured by Amir. I got the FR data from @edechamps' Open Loudspeaker Explorer.
Notice that the graph has matched the on-axis FR for all three at 300Hz. So, ostensibly, if you used a 300Hz test tone and matched the SPL, you would get that FR (ignoring the effects of the room). Looking just at 20Hz to 300Hz, what you'll find is that you might like the blue because it's loudest, or because of the emphasis on bass. Or you might like the orange even though it's quieter because that range is flatter and more even. Or you might like red because it reaches deeper and has output at 50Hz stronger than the other two.
So, to summarize, if the tone is exactly the same, assuming it's not pushed beyond what it can handle, the louder speaker will win.
If the tone is different then it's not completely certain what will win.
For electronics, which will 99 times out of 100 have the same flat FR, the louder component will win.
It is oft cited on here that a 0.1 dB mismatch in SPL will bias listening tests in favor of the louder device chain.
But the converse does not seem to have been addressed, hence my query
Anyway, to get away from all those complexities just match test tones within 0.1dB electrically at the outputs.
But surely the OP asks a different question: if an obviously "good" speaker is compared with an obviously "bad" speaker at a precise level match, we can expect (hope?) that the "good" speaker will be preferred. But if the "bad" speaker is inched upward in level, beyond the JND, will it now automatically be preferred? Or is there something about the "good" and "bad" speakers' respective SQs that will allow the original preference to survive the new amplitude mismatch? And if so, what?
The suggestion is for matching speakers using bandpass limited pink noise 500 hz to 2000hz.
Let's pick 2 amps - one has a SINAD of x, the other is only 0.7 x but it is played 0.5 dB louder
which will be preferred?
or use THD levels, etc.
Just wanted to highlight this.You can't possible level match such an experiment. Even if you match levels at one frequency, the two will not have identical frequency response and time characteristics. All you've got left is preference.
JND is just an experimental parameter in psychology that is defined by results. When testing it will be different from person to person, since it marks when the listener is able to distinguish that something (intensity, duration, pitch, location and so on) has changed. That number produced in the Vanderkooy and Lipschitz study is not the same thing as JND, but related, since JND sets the lower limit of what you can expect while the study established the threshold of preference for slightly louder signals.I don't think it is JND. JND is a larger difference than .1 db yet .2 db will be enough to make one source sound of better quality.
The one which is 0.5dB louder. Distortion would have to be really different to pick a preference for it.
SINAD is just an indicator and does NOT describe/have reference to perceived SQ unless noise is audible and or distortion reaches audible levels.
As quite a few have said this is ONLY true for electronics as they do not color the sound (unless they are really, purposely or not) designed to change the sound.
For speakers it doesn't work this way as variations within the audible band are huge compared to what electronics can do.
To answer the OP question in perhaps different wording: Sound quality is not solely determined by level differences. When levels between 0.2 and 0.5dB differences are present it isn't perceived as a difference in loudness when switching between electronics (NOT speakers !) but often as a preference or slight change in 'fullness' of the sound.
That's why, to be certain when comparing electronics one should level match to 0.1dB (1%) to ensure that's not the case.
NOT so with speakers !!!!!
@Blumlein 88 posted the research above: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/spl-vs-sq.14010/post-427588ok, is this an opinion or is there research that supports this?
also, what if one is only 0.2 dB louder?
ok, is this an opinion or is there research that supports this?
also, what if one is only 0.2 dB louder?
Hmm, I have no recollection of that.I think it was @mansr on another forum, a couple years back posted files asking for people to rank them in pairs. As much as is wrong with such online listening tests (variable playback gear and conditions at a minimum), there was one file with near universal agreement in the results. Where two identical files were presented only one was 1 db louder. Not one person commented on a loudness difference, but only on quality differences.
Hmm, I have no recollection of that.
Let's pick 2 amps - one has a SINAD of x, the other is only 0.7 x but it is played 0.5 dB louder
which will be preferred?
or use THD levels, etc.