The quest for my hyper speaker - Very Large room dilemma

[Schollaudio]

This was my intuitive understanding as well. And despite not being an engineer I made the same calculations. However multiple posts by expert engineers, speaker designers and the owner of this website convinced me that I could not get there without suffering some form of compression in cone drivers and could only get there with horns. In medicine we would call this level 3 evidence, or expert opinion, the lowest form of evidence (below randomized controlled trials and oberservational studies). Since I myself am not an expert, and there seems to be a lack of evidence in terms of randomized controlled trials in audibility of dynamics between cones and horns (if there is such a thing), I have to go with expert opinion of everyone that contributed, including yourself.

So, thank you for your expert opinion.

Also, is there any data on the compression of the drivers of the salon 2 at high spl's. I am asking because I have no intuitive understanding of whether or not a 14-in equivalent driver can hit those without compression. Also, in terms of transient peaks of up to 115 DB. How much power will be required and will the driver compress.

I don't know the capability of the Salon 2 but if I understand your asking for 124db at 1 meter peaks I highly doubt those speakers will even come close. Seeing your room you'll want a very nice looking system.

Do you know a good carpenter? If so still look at a JBL solution and see if you could get a nice looking custom 18 using a BMS woofers to match the JBLs build. Your still going to want 4 1000 watt amps crossed at 80-100hz and some EQ.

No body complains about the high end JBL 4367 studio monitors. no one complains about https://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php-10.html?id=bms_18n850v2. A good local carpenter could integrate that setup nicely into you environment.

 

[FrankW]

My speakers are all equalized to Harman with dirac to my listing position.

There is no such thing. Harman speakers have built in "correct" curves. Only anechoic response EQ could improve upon those, nothing to do with listening position. A common forum myth by folks who don't understand the difference between microphones and human perception. Only <transition (500hz or so) EQ should be done around listening position. Nothing above (from LP). Program EQ is independent issue.

I use the Harmon curve that was previously optimized for the f208s themselves directly by Harmon.

Do tell. Harman provides EQ from anechoic data?

 

[aliqaz]

There is no such thing. Harman speakers have built in "correct" curves. Only anechoic response EQ could improve upon those, nothing to do with listening position. A common forum myth by folks who don't understand the difference between microphones and human perception. Only <transition (500hz or so) EQ should be done around listening position. Nothing above (from LP). Program EQ is independent issue.

Do tell. Harman provides EQ from anechoic data?

This post seems unnecessarily antagonistic?

 

[fpitas]

This post seems unnecessarily antagonistic?

Yes, it was a bit. Still, your statement was confusing to all of us.

 

[ocinn]

A for Ara on Instagram: "Our new endeavor, H2. 130dB in the bottom octave, care of a pair of ten-foot folded bass horns in each channel. Heading to a listening room in Far Rockaway."

289 likes, 43 comments - a.for.ara on December 19, 2018: "Our new endeavor, H2. 130dB in the bottom octave, care of a pair of ten-foot folded bass horns in each channel. Heading to a listening ro...".

www.instagram.com

These would look stunning hung from the roof, in a natural stain finish. Danley style multiple entry horn design, but more modern-art and less concert PA box. Company also makes a more traditional design. https://www.aforara.com/collection/b-2

I mean I think the Danley Hyperion is actually your best technical choice, it just comes down to if they can do an alternate finish for you.

Edit: I should mention I work with Danley all the time at work. The SM60F that the Hyperion is based on is an incredible box for the size. I have no doubts it will play louder and cleaner than most of the other options listed in this thread. Combined with perfect & tight dispersion, and insane measurements, with nearly 3000w per speaker, i can't think of anything more suited for the room.

 

[FrankW]

This post seems unnecessarily antagonistic?

No such intention. The gist was "general" not specific to your statements. I stand by mine regard EQ, you've quoted Toole and he very recently stated same thing here

 

[FrankW]

I mean I think the Danley Hyperion is actually your best technical choice, it just comes down to if they can do an alternate finish for you.

Maybe cloth cover the horn mouth too, so people don't stick trash or mail in it

 

[hege]

I believe he's talking about maximum short peaks. If he is listening an average level of 95 dB sometimes (still very loud), certain passages can reach 115 dB. I've vistied people who cranked up the average level to about 100-105 dB and they claimed they listened that loud occasionally (but not for long).

Thread after thread the same SPL talk always comes.. too loud, losing hearing, boo..

100-105dBZ is really nothing for material with lots of bass, measured with A-weighting might show 20dB less. I often play 110dBZ average bass at home with 120dB peaks per UMIK-1/REW. Not for hours of course. But people who can't stand such SPL don't probably enjoy clubs or concerts either... live a little and enjoy the physical feelings.

Yes 100-105dB(A) of poorly recorded death metal can be like a chainsaw...

And more into little offtopic as I'm bored... here's a fun test track.. I jumped out of my sofa the first time I heard the gunshots at ~125dB peak. But I'm only 2.3 meters from my 1237A's so no problems there.

This is the level that makes it enjoyable and realistic for me.

 

[Purité Audio]

A for Ara on Instagram: "Our new endeavor, H2. 130dB in the bottom octave, care of a pair of ten-foot folded bass horns in each channel. Heading to a listening room in Far Rockaway."

289 likes, 43 comments - a.for.ara on December 19, 2018: "Our new endeavor, H2. 130dB in the bottom octave, care of a pair of ten-foot folded bass horns in each channel. Heading to a listening ro...".

www.instagram.com

These would look stunning hung from the roof, in a natural stain finish. Danley style multiple entry horn design, but more modern-art and less concert PA box. Company also makes a more traditional design. https://www.aforara.com/collection/b-2

I mean I think the Danley Hyperion is actually your best technical choice, it just comes down to if they can do an alternate finish for you.

Edit: I should mention I work with Danley all the time at work. The SM60F that the Hyperion is based on is an incredible box for the size. I have no doubts it will play louder and cleaner than most of the other options listed in this thread. Combined with perfect & tight dispersion, and insane measurements, with nearly 3000w per speaker, i can't think of anything more suited for the room.

They were more than adequate for my 5x7m room, Mesanovic RTM10 for comparison.


Keith

 

[ocinn]

They were more than adequate for my 5x7m room, Mesanovic RTM10 for comparison.

Thank god they changed the design to a slightly more exotic/upscale one. But yeah, I don't doubt it. IME, the SM60F will do 108-111 dba at 20ft/6m all day long still shockingly cleanly (obviously high-passed to subwoofers).

 

[fineMen]

... dynamics, I'm not sure if they are affected that much, but in my experience, having speakers too far apart, or less than ideal toe in affects mostly mid bass. ...
Admittedly I have no data to support this but it has been my impression that sometimes equilateral triangle in speaker positioning is less than optimal.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. A Spanish physician asked for 143+ dB of dynamics in his flat. You want to give it to him, discussing speaker placement.

If so, it's the most exciting challenge ever posted. I can't imagine how it may relate to me, taking my physical health into concern

19 pages, please don't stop with speculating!

 

[sarumbear]

Thread after thread the same SPL talk always comes.. too loud, losing hearing, boo..

Sorry for trying to help you in saving your ears. However, have you wondered why thread after thread people say the same thing?

100-105dBZ is really nothing for material with lots of bass, measured with A-weighting might show 20dB less. I often play 110dBZ average bass at home with 120dB peaks per UMIK-1/REW. Not for hours of course.

What Noises Cause Hearing Loss? | NCEH | CDC

Noise is a significant source of hearing loss, but you can protect your hearing. An important first step is to understand how noise causes hearing loss.

www.cdc.gov

 

[sarumbear]

A Spanish physician asked for 143+ dB of dynamics in his flat.

A domestic environment in a town will be around 35dB, which means you need to produce around 180dBSPL. Good luck with that!

 

[Purité Audio]

Thank god they changed the design to a slightly more exotic/upscale one. But yeah, I don't doubt it. IME, the SM60F will do 108-111 dba at 20ft/6m all day long still shockingly cleanly (obviously high-passed to subwoofers).

Sadly I don’t believe the design will be changed, there is a flaring around the horn mouth now but that is it rrp ( I believe) £60k.
Keith

 

[sarumbear]

They were more than adequate for my 5x7m room, Mesanovic RTM10 for comparison.


Keith

Our new endeavor, H2. 130dB in the bottom octave, care of a pair of ten-foot folded bass horns in each channel.

Any specifications? Bottom octave means 130dBSPL at 20Hz. A horn mouth of 50-60cm is around 1/30 wave at that frequency.

 

[hege]

Sorry for trying to help you in saving your ears. However, have you wondered why thread after thread people say the same thing?

I get it it, it's good to be responsible, but it doesn't mean you need to overdo it. There are dangers in everything. I don't follow the whiskey threads here, but probably someone is there too telling that you will loose braincells with every drink.

 

[ocinn]

Sadly I don’t believe the design will be changed, there is a flaring around the horn mouth now but that is it rrp ( I believe) £60k.
Keith

Really? He's still using the new design as promotional material on facebook etc:

The plain box design in the pre-production sample you got is going to alienate a huge portion of potential customers.

 

[Purité Audio]

Any specifications? Bottom octave means 130dBSPL at 20Hz. A horn mouth of 50-60cm is around 1/30 wave at that frequency.

Not when I heard that pair here last year, I believe the horn is similar to the SM60M,

SM60M | Danley Sound Labs

The Danley SM60M loudspeaker is a mid-high version of the SM60F horn without the dual 8” low frequency drivers.

www.danleysoundlabs.com

Then two 15” down below, amp/dsp courtesy of Ram,


Sm60 is what around $5k per piece?
Keith

 

[Purité Audio]

Really? He's still using the new design as promotional material on facebook etc:

View attachment 283525

The plain box design in the pre-production sample you got is going to alienate a huge portion of potential customers.

Iain U.K. disti sent me a few promo shots,


Keith

 

[ocinn]

Any specifications? Bottom octave means 130dBSPL at 20Hz. A horn mouth of 50-60cm is around 1/30 wave at that frequency.

Assuming you meant to reply to me with the ARA speakers. And yes they have quite a sizeable folded horn (speaker in back is the larger brother of the ones I originally sent, the same concept though).