The Vinyl Frontier

[mike70]

I don't see why millennials can't buy records, be knowledgeable and adjust their analog systems at the same time.

They can ... but I simplify things to make them easy to understand the point.

Generally, ASR analog listeners are above the guy that just throw records in a turntable, that's what I mean.

 

[Sal1950]

That said, @Sal1950 likes to tickle the analog people where they don't like to be tickled. I kept my record player just to spite him.

Great post Señor Bats Ear!
That's the way I like it.
Or in Mandalorian
This Is The Way.

 

[LewisWaddo]

NEVER? LOL, Please, save your fairy tales for the little children,
They believe in such BS.

I literally never hear them, I have a sugar cube and a parks audio puffin. My records are in decent condition also. Even my poor condition ones sound fantastic. So I guess I’m cheating a little… no one is going to convince me to consume digital music as a subscription service…

Here is a little demo using, what I regard as, a terrible record. It has a grim scratch right through a few tracks. I’ve played the record starting from the quiet between the tracks where the scratch is worst.
No pops and clicks!

And now…. With all the magic bypassed! Warts ‘n’ all! Still doesn’t sound that bad, if I’m honest with you.

 

[LewisWaddo]

I hear them, and they go on my nerves.
The same when the analog radio in the car switches from stereo to mono. Annoying.


Ideally my last € would be spent with my last breath. The children have their own assets.
I recently started paying for Spotifiy and have discovered a lot new music through it, i recommend to test it for half a year or so, it's 10€ a month, two month are free, so it would be 40€ for the first half year, the price of a meal.


Since you are almost new: Welcome to ASR, I hope you enjoy others idiotic opinions as well!


It was a figure of speech, meant to convey that he chooses to ignore them.
Nothing annoys me more than the Sisters Of Mercy album i got as a gift last Christmas. It has a pop on the lead in for a few revolutions, from the factory.

I literally never hear pops and clicks though… I have gear that gets rid of all that. The hardware that offers this is getting cheaper. I had a DIY kit that set me back about £150. The puffin was £500 and my SC-1 was just over £1k I’ve not heard any pops and clicks for years.

I’m happy I’ve got some value in the money I’ve spent on music over the years. I have all the gear for streaming, I just don’t use it. It gathers dust. I run my CDs and Vinyl through my Chord DAC. It’s utter bliss. No pops, no clicks.

I’m not an analogue purist. I just love tangible assets. I love the art, I love the ritual of vinyl. It all adds worth and investment into what I’m listening to.

 

[egellings]

I don't have a problem with clicks or pops on records unless I pick up beat-up ones at a rummage sale. Can't blame the medium for noisy sound because a beat-up example is used to demo it.

 

[LewisWaddo]

I don't have a problem with clicks or pops on records unless I pick up beat-up ones at a rummage sale. Can't blame the medium for noisy sound because a beat-up example is used to demo it.

I’m a vinyl lover, and I do have a problem with pops and clicks. It’s not something I encounter anymore. I think we have reached a point where we can mitigate the failings of the format, and not have to break the bank doing so…

 

[egellings]

I’m a vinyl lover, and I do have a problem with pops and clicks. It’s not something I encounter anymore. I think we have reached a point where we can mitigate the failings of the format, and not have to break the bank doing so…

I've been fortunate then, to have happened upon quiet copies of vinyl records that I bought new. Records obtained at rummage sales have been anywhere from like new to nearly unlistenable. Of course, if noisiness of vinyl is compared to the quiet of d1g1t0l, then there's simply no comparison; the ones and zeros win out every time.

 

[LewisWaddo]

I've been fortunate then, to have happened upon quiet copies of vinyl records that I bought new. Records obtained at rummage sales have been anywhere from like new to nearly unlistenable. Of course, if noisiness of vinyl is compared to the quiet of d1g1t0l, then there's simply no comparison; the ones and zeros win out every time.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to say that all vinyl is noisy. It just can be.

Most of the time, for me, it’s not noisy. It’s a rare occasion that I hear pops and clicks when I listen, even without all the de-noise gubbins enabled. It’s an extra step I take, so I never encounter noise whilst I’m lost in a listening session I grew up on CDs, inherited some vinyl, and then ran with it. The format means a lot to me. More so than digital streaming could ever hope to. I consider streaming a soulless process that’s a new way for the industry to do over artists. I’m not saying that artists have had it good in the past, but I don’t think they’ve had it this bad before with this new way to consume music. It’s why touring is back in a big way. Spend you money on live music then physical formats. Streaming is bottom of the barrel for me.

Again… my idiot opinion.

 

[mike70]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to say that all vinyl is noisy. It just can be.

Most of the time, for me, it’s not noisy. It’s a rare occasion that I hear pops and clicks when I listen, even without all the de-noise gubbins enabled. It’s an extra step I take, so I never encounter noise whilst I’m lost in a listening session I grew up on CDs, inherited some vinyl, and then ran with it. The format means a lot to me. More so than digital streaming could ever hope to. I consider streaming a soulless process that’s a new way for the industry to do over artists. I’m not saying that artists have had it good in the past, but I don’t think they’ve had it this bad before with this new way to consume music. It’s why touring is back in a big way. Spend you money on live music then physical formats. Streaming is bottom of the barrel for me.

Again… my idiot opinion.

Far from an idiot ... streaming is awful for artists, the worst ever. Nobody talks about it, they only consume "convenience and cheap" destroying the art.
We will have what we deserve, more plastic music and large playlists to skip songs every 20 seconds.

 

[Sal1950]

Of course, if noisiness of vinyl is compared to the quiet of d1g1t0l, then there's simply no comparison; the ones and zeros win out every time.

At last, someone telling the truth here.

And now…. With all the magic bypassed! Warts ‘n’ all! Still doesn’t sound that bad, if I’m honest with you.

After that little box gets done removing all the pops, clicks, and surface noise, I wonder how much of the original
signal is left to listen too? Besides the fact the box can tame the noise, but not undo all the other damage that was
done to the original master tapes sound to make it acceptable to the cutting lathe and playback gear.

 

[mike70]

Sounds like loudness war in digital music to sound good on portable devices

 

[Jack Harrison]

At last, someone telling the truth here.

After that little box gets done removing all the pops, clicks, and surface noise, I wonder how much of the original
signal is left to listen too? Besides the fact the box can tame the noise, but not undo all the other damage that was
done to the original master tapes sound to make it acceptable to the cutting lathe and playback gear.

Here we go again with the face palming. It’s not funny and it’s not clever. And it adds nothing to the conversation. And ‘you wonder’ because you’ve never actually heard the results of digital (yep) pop and click removing. So much for the objectivity! ‘Digital’ software can be very clever don't you know?

 

[LewisWaddo]

After that little box gets done removing all the pops, clicks, and surface noise, I wonder how much of the original
signal is left to listen too? Besides the fact the box can tame the noise, but not undo all the other damage that was
done to the original master tapes sound to make it acceptable to the cutting lathe and playback gear.

On a decent record, it doesn’t have to do mutch. I can show you waveform comparisons, if you like. The pops and clicks you hear on a bad record last for nanoseconds, but are very audible. When you subtract that pop or click, you loose next to nothing once the waveform is smoothed over. The filter is only applied when required also, so it doesn’t alter the waveform when not required. It’s pretty impressive.

I can’t think of much music that I would like to listen to that’s had an entirely digital production path… so I guess I’ll always have these terrible sounding recordings and records to put up with.

 

[Jack Harrison]

One of the things that aids pop and click removal is that they sound and look like such anomalies within the music and the ripped file on audacity for instance. That’s why they‘re so obvious and unsettling to the ear when you‘re listening, but it means that they’re not at all hard to identify visually on audacity or to remove one by one. That’s an impractical process for a rip and obviously that’s the benefit of the software solutions especially the ones that can do it on the fly.
Maybe one of these self appointed digital gurus would like to point to a post where someone who plays LPs has claimed on this forum that vinyl has a better s/n ratio than digital?
Stating the b. obvious as if it’s the findings of a genius and talking down to people who just like listening to records as if they’re morons and clowns, yeah, way to go. Makes a better world for everyone, right?

 

[LewisWaddo]

One of the things that aids pop and click removal is that they sound and look like such anomalies within the music and the ripped file on audacity for instance. That’s why they‘re so obvious and unsettling to the ear when you‘re listening, but it means that they’re not at all hard to identify visually on audacity or to remove one by one. That’s an impractical process for a rip and obviously that’s the benefit of the software solutions especially the ones that can do it on the fly.
Maybe one of these self appointed digital gurus would like to point to a post where someone who plays LPs has claimed on this forum that vinyl has a better s/n ratio than digital?
Stating the b. obvious as if it’s the findings of a genius and talking down to people who just like listening to records as if they’re morons and clowns, yeah, way to go. Makes a better world for everyone, right?

That’s the thing. I had a digital champion tell me how shit my setup would sound, just because it was based around vinyl. I’m aware of its limitations, but after inviting him round to my house, and listening to a few familiar records of his choosing, he was forced to accept that it sounded awesome, and even flicking between CD, streaming and Vinyl Records he couldn’t conclusively state that digital was better. On a blind A/B/C test, he couldn’t tell which was which.

I appreciate ASR. I love the solid figures and analysis they offer, and these figures have aided me in making decisions in my hifi setup. It has also helped me look at my setup realistically, and squeeze performance out of it whilst avoiding HiFi ju-ju snake oil crap.

I’ll be grabbing two LA90s with the pre-amp next for my setup! I’ll still be listening to Vinyl and CDs through it, and it will sound fecking awesome. Honest!

 

[mike70]

That’s the thing. I had a digital champion tell me how shit my setup would sound, just because it was based around vinyl. I’m aware of its limitations, but after inviting him round to my house, and listening to a few familiar records of his choosing, he was forced to accept that it sounded awesome, and even flicking between CD, streaming and Vinyl Records he couldn’t conclusively state that digital was better. On a blind A/B/C test, he couldn’t tell which was which.

I appreciate ASR. I love the solid figures and analysis they offer, and these figures have aided me in making decisions in my hifi setup. It has also helped me look at my setup realistically, and squeeze performance out of it whilst avoiding HiFi ju-ju snake oil crap.

I’ll be grabbing two LA90s with the pre-amp next for my setup! I’ll still be listening to Vinyl and CDs through it, and it will sound fecking awesome. Honest!

Lewis, that's the REAL / PRACTICAL truth ... and based on science already.
The audibility of 90dB vs 70dB of DR, room noise floor, speakers THD, recordings SQ, ears with 8-10khz limit on high frequencies, blah blah.
We're not talking about "magic" or "fools illusions", we're talking about science here.

Vinyl is impractical, expensive and have many theoreticall shortcomings (yes, yes and yes), we all (i think) knows about it.
But ... in the real experience, playing the game ... with a decent vinyl system and clean records / stylus ... all that stuff goes away and vinyl CAN bring you a very good SQ.

Again, i talk to the people that really wants to construct an educated and not biased opinion, in other way ... well, i need that time to listen to records

 

[Sal1950]

I can’t think of much music that I would like to listen to that’s had an entirely digital production path… so I guess I’ll always have these terrible sounding recordings and records to put up with.

You have my sincerest sympathies.

 

[Jack Harrison]

On a decent record, it doesn’t have to do mutch. I can show you waveform comparisons, if you like. The pops and clicks you hear on a bad record last for nanoseconds, but are very audible. When you subtract that pop or click, you loose next to nothing once the waveform is smoothed over. The filter is only applied when required also, so it doesn’t alter the waveform when not required. It’s pretty impressive.

I can’t think of much music that I would like to listen to that’s had an entirely digital production path… so I guess I’ll always have these terrible sounding recordings and records to put up with.

Is there even such a thing as a recording with an entirely digital production path? Seeing as how all mikes and pickups need analogue to digital conversion somewhere in their chain? Maybe if someone’s such an uncompromising digital fanboy or fanatic they won’t listen to acoustic instruments or human voices and only ever listen to computer generated signals to keep their digital listening perfect and pure? If so, they have my sincerest sympathies.
And what a shame that all that digital perfection ends up being processed through our so much less than perfect analogue ears.
For sure digital has a better s/n ratio than analogue. In fact without any analogue in the chain all those lovely 1s and 0s would be completely and utterly silent.

 

[mike70]

Listening to analogue directly from the phono preamp to the amplifier or passing by the minidsp Flex ... i cannot find a difference at all.
With my ears or with an umik-1 and REW.

And adding the DSP magic ... oh yes, that's much better (subjective and objective) and then i care nothing about any possible "digital loss" (and for me is an empty talk, a decent ADC makes a transparent copy of the analog information).

 

[LewisWaddo]

You have my sincerest sympathies.

Please recommend some decent music with a completely digital production, end to end. I’ll happily give it a go. I can recommend modern albums that are full analogue. Polygondwanaland by King Gizzard for example. Not a single computer used in the production of any of their albums from 2014 to 2020. All sound incredible.

I’m all ears