Topping E30 vs Shiit Modius, any notable differences?

[Bob from Florida]

Rather than argue about whether DACS sound different why not ask more pertinent questions. Such as - do you have a preference where the DAC is manufactured? Some folks prefer Made in America. A really good one - if it breaks can it be repaired by the OEM without sending overseas or is it destined for a land fill?

 

[McFly]

Ones fixed output single ended and balanced, the others single ended with a volume control. The end.

 

[Rayman30]

I know this is cliché at this point, but good DACs SHOULD be and often are indistinguishable from each other, I would say get whatever looks nicest, or get balanced if you need balanced, but If I wanted higher quality sound, I would look at the headphones first then the amp. See I have a D50S/A50S combo, if suddenly the DAC was no better than an original Modi, Id likely not notice, friend of mine got me a D50S for my birthday last year, so I got the A50S to match it (Using 4.4mm balanced on Ananda)

Seriously, DACs are just not super important unless you have a specific use case, such as you wanted DSD support, baring of course they have no serious flaw.

 

[Dragonstreamline]

I am writing this in response to someone earlier mentioning the effects of audio information over 20khz even if we can't hear it:

Most audio engineers agree that everything above 22.05khz is forfeit (above 20khz really but the few more khz give you good wiggle-room for exceptional-hearing people). There are some engineers such as Mark Waldrep, who claims that there is no audible difference between a track recorded in 16bit/44.1khz (or truncated to it) and a track in native 24/96 or above, but he anecdotally says that high-resolution audio creates less pressure on his ears and he can produce a lot longer with high-res audio. Keep in mind however that he claims that this is only a benefit of high resolution DIGITAL audio as even the best analog recordings are capped at about 12-14bits of dynamic range due to tape properties.

The type of distortions that are mostly pleasurable or masked to humans are harmonic, which are produces as overtones and do not produce non-linearities below their dominant frequency (a 1khz tone will only produce harmonic distortions at 2khz, 3khz, etc). Non-harmonic distortions are completely new information that isn't in the original recording and does not directly correlate to the original audio signal - distortions to the left of the original signal can only be non-linear/non-harmonic in nature. Therefore, even if there are some ear-relaxing benefits of audio past 20khz, there is no reason to believe they contain any information that will return to the audible range in a form of anything except unwanted aliasing (signals above shannon-nyquist due to poor attenuation of the low pass filter, for example - this is going to be crud that is not accurate to the original source of the audio).

Taking into account something as sensitive as the micro-dynamics of audio waves, what is your take on experiencing minimum phase vs linear phase as different sounding?

 

[ahender]

If all DACs sound alike, why does ASR review them and why not add a disclaimer at the bottom of each review? “Every DAC sounds the same regardless of how it measures.”

 

[Rayman30]

If all DACs sound alike, why does ASR review them and why not add a disclaimer at the bottom of each review? “Every DAC sounds the same regardless of how it measures.”

Objective measurements between DACs are often inaudible, but does that mean we simply quit measuring them? not sure about you but I appreciate the science, and despite that I still would buy the highest performing DAC.

 

[Veri]

If all DACs sound alike, why does ASR review them and why not add a disclaimer at the bottom of each review? “Every DAC sounds the same regardless of how it measures.”

One can simply google: ASR thresholds of audibility

Audibility thresholds of amp and DAC measurements

Introduction A recurring theme on ASR is whether or not the various measured qualities of the devices are audible. In this post, I'll present some clear and visual thresholds for when those imperfections can be considered a potentially audible concern. I will not explain the basics of amp/DAC...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[ahender]

One can simply google: ASR thresholds of audibility

Audibility thresholds of amp and DAC measurements

Introduction A recurring theme on ASR is whether or not the various measured qualities of the devices are audible. In this post, I'll present some clear and visual thresholds for when those imperfections can be considered a potentially audible concern. I will not explain the basics of amp/DAC...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Objective measurements between DACs are often inaudible, but does that mean we simply quit measuring them? not sure about you but I appreciate the science, and despite that I still would buy the highest performing DAC.

I enjoy reading the comments. It‘s mostly a pissing contest but there is a lot of useful information.

 

[billyjoebob]

I enjoy reading the comments. It‘s mostly a pissing contest but there is a lot of useful information.

I often get the sense that (for some) its a justification to spend as little as possible and still feel like you've got A+ gear.

 

[BDWoody]

I often get the sense that (for some) its a justification to spend as little as possible and still feel like you've got A+ gear.

If the goal is simply to have transparent gear, it is reassuring to not feel, but know spending more won't get you a better result.

I often get the sense that people who don't understand what the measurements and numbers mean are the first to dismiss it all, then show up regularly to semi-troll.

Funny how predictable it gets.

Edit: Then they tend to complain about how we aren't as warm and fuzzy as they might prefer...

 

[ahender]

If the goal is simply to have transparent gear, it is reassuring to not feel, but know spending more won't get you a better result.

I often get the sense that people who don't understand what the measurements and numbers mean are the first to dismiss it all, then show up regularly to semi-troll.

Funny how predictable it gets.

Edit: Then they tend to complain about how we aren't as warm and fuzzy as they might prefer...

If ASR reviews three Topping DACS and all three have fantastic measurements and meet your needs, range $250-900, would you buy the cheapest or would you look for additional reviews?

 

[BDWoody]

If ASR reviews three Topping DACS and all three have fantastic measurements and meet your needs, range $250-900, would you buy the cheapest or would you look for additional reviews?

I might look to see about usability features that our host doesn't focus on, but otherwise no on the looking for other reviews.

I would buy the one I liked the most in terms of construction quality details (plastic vs metal case, knob feel, tidy construction, etc.), looks, or future utility.

 

[Veri]

If ASR reviews three Topping DACS and all three have fantastic measurements and meet your needs, range $250-900, would you buy the cheapest or would you look for additional reviews?

Additional reviews? Perhaps to get more production model pictures and hands-on user experience. Like, actual useful info.

To get descriptions on brightness or analogue-ness, wide-ness of stage? Perhaps if I wanted a good laugh.

 

[ahender]

Additional reviews? Perhaps to get more production model pictures and hands-on user experience. Like, actual useful info.

To get descriptions on brightness or analogue-ness, wide-ness of stage? Perhaps if I wanted a good laugh.

So prior to ASR, what did you do?

 

[Veri]

So prior to ASR, what did you do?

There have been decent objective reviews before ASR. Stereophile measurement section for one. But yes I've also bought gear on hearsay in the past, reading gushing reviews and believing some of the stuff in there. Do you think I should go back; buying blind? Cause I'd rather not !

 

[Jimbob54]

If all DACs sound alike, why does ASR review them and why not add a disclaimer at the bottom of each review? “Every DAC sounds the same regardless of how it measures.”

If they all measured the same I am pretty sure Amir would stop reviewing them. Yet still some companies either intentionally or through incompetence manage to balls it up. Why would you want your DAC to have a sound?

 

[billyjoebob]

If the goal is simply to have transparent gear, it is reassuring to not feel, but know spending more won't get you a better result.

I often get the sense that people who don't understand what the measurements and numbers mean are the first to dismiss it all, then show up regularly to semi-troll.

Funny how predictable it gets.

Edit: Then they tend to complain about how we aren't as warm and fuzzy as they might prefer...

Yea. NOT- semi trolling, but thanks.
I was brought to this site because I am a measurements guy, and it is a very important part of my search for gear.
But the absolutely ridiculous notion (brought by some smart people)
That everything sounds the same is absurd!
And ya know what?
I can almost agree with this (on a small level of indifference), with DAC's.
But when fools start spouting that all amps sound the same.........ah no!
Whats next?
All speakers sound the same?
All cars drive the same?
All food taste the same?
And before anyone beats me to it.

Uh-huh.

 

[Astrozombie]

Topping E30 has a smooth and creamy sound. Why are you misleading? Why are you telling that it is transparent, colorless and tasteless?

I think he was watching cheapaudioman on youtube

 

[Smokeyhill]

I recently purchased a schiit modi 3, and swapped it with my existing Topping e30 (running filter 4) so thought I may add something to this thread. To my surprise the difference for me was quite noticeable. The start of Billie Eilish, Everything I wanted, on the E30 the repeating bass note is really strong and loud, quite fun. On the modi 3 it is way less loud, and also vocals sounded slightly clearer. Ymmv but it was a less subtle difference than I expected. Just to add, I am streaming from a pi3 digione hat over Roon with flac files. No idea which one I prefer to be honest, I like them both a lot for different reasons, but they do sound quite different to me.

 

[jsrtheta]

Yea. NOT- semi trolling, but thanks.
I was brought to this site because I am a measurements guy, and it is a very important part of my search for gear.
But the absolutely ridiculous notion (brought by some smart people)
That everything sounds the same is absurd!
And ya know what?
I can almost agree with this (on a small level of indifference), with DAC's.
But when fools start spouting that all amps sound the same.........ah no!
Whats next?
All speakers sound the same?
All cars drive the same?
All food taste the same?
And before anyone beats me to it.

Uh-huh.

Yet when the labels are covered and the identity of the component concealed, those "differences" magically disappear!

It sure is a mystery.