Topping L30 Headphone Amplifier Review

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

well the tonal balance will change if you put the exact same audio system in different rooms so..

performance..live performance it doesn`t really matter

It does matter. There's a huge difference between a performance and a recording.

 

[Vini darko]

well... active speakers can be driven quite well from a headphone amp ..

The l30 is proving to be a excellent preamp for me. Very much enjoying the lack of noise and distortion. I'm running a power amp not actives though.

 

[1roger]

It does matter. There's a huge difference between a performance and a recording.

was talking about performance on a recording vs recorded live performance. that`s it tho! im done

 

[bogi]

it affect transparency

I never liked these caps in signal path. Other solutions like DC servo are a bit more complicated but audiophiles like them more. This is one of the things where audible effect is most likely not measurable. Some people report it to be audible and most of people deny any audible effect.

Something from theory - taken from maximintegrated.com material https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/app-notes/3/3171.html

The voltage coefficient of modern film resistors is very good, and usually below the level that is readily measured in the lab. Capacitors, on the other hand, can limit performance as a consequence of several departures from the ideal:

• Voltage coefficient: Described previously.
• Dielectric absorption (DA): A memory-like effect in which a discharged capacitor retains some of the charge previously stored on it.
• Equivalent series resistance (ESR): This can be frequency dependent, and can limit power output when series-coupling capacitors drive the low impedance of a headphone or speaker.
• Microphony: Some capacitors have a marked piezoelectric effect, in which physical stress and flexure of the capacitor generates a voltage across the terminals.
• Poor tolerance: For most large-valued capacitors (several µF and higher), accuracy is not tightly specified. Resistors, on the other hand, are readily and inexpensively specified for a tolerance of 1% or 2%.

I'm using quite power hungry planar HiFiMan HE-500, able to play a bass deeper than 20Hz (measured). Bass demands and carries most of power.

To be clear, I don't recommend you to bypass the caps and I am not telling you that you could hear a difference.

 

[solderdude]

This is one of the things where audible effect is most likely not measurable

I am curious ...why would this be ?
Why would one say something is most likely not measurable ?

Some people report it to be audible

If we were to believe everything that is reported by people ...

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

He's just saying that in his world, some people are able to hear things that can't be measured.

 

[bogi]

I am curious ...why would this be ?
Why would one say something is most likely not measurable ?

I don't know about measurements which would confirm effect of DC coupling capacitors to be audible, if the capacitance value is properly chosen. But human hearing is subject of ongoing research and measurement methods can improve. For me this is not a closed topic.

 

[Veri]

I never liked these caps in signal path. Other solutions like DC servo are a bit more complicated but audiophiles like them more. This is one of the things where audible effect is most likely not measurable. Some people report it to be audible and most of people deny any audible effect.

Something from theory - taken from maximintegrated.com material https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/app-notes/3/3171.html



I'm using quite power hungry planar HiFiMan HE-500, able to play a bass deeper than 20Hz (measured). Bass demands and carries most of power.

To be clear, I don't recommend you to bypass the caps and I am not telling you that you could hear a difference.

I believe @trl once made some graphs showing measurement with and without caps in signal path. Difference was reaaaaally small, wouldn't believe it to be audible.

 

[Deleted member 20267]

Would I be able to drive beyer T1 2nd gen with e30 + l30 stack? Supposedly has peaks to 1400ohms, which would mean I need up to 3.74vrms, and I think l30 is able to supply that right?

 

[Reckoner]

Has anyone hooked up some powered speakers to this thing yet? Like LSR305 or Edifiers or similar desktop/bookshelf type speakers? Is it really as simple as a flip of the switch to go from my headphone to the speakers? Or do I need to worry about levels like what I read about with the DX3Pro?

It is really simple. I like that the L30 has the knob to switch from Headphones to Pre, without the need to disconnect the headphones, and that you can always leave them connected. And don't be like other amps that automatically turn off the pre section when headphones are plugged in or worse, leave the pre and headphone section on all the time.
BUT

I was testing the E30 + L30 in my dining room, with some Microlab assets that are not the ones I use regularly, I use them casually when I am not in my listening room.
Let me clarify one thing, these Microlabs were connected to the 3.5 output of the PC, before my E30 arrived. The speakers have 60 volume steps, I was using them in step 35. When my E30 arrived, I had to lower the speaker volume to step 22. Without E30, step 35, with E30 step 22, and they sound just as loud. Beyond the significant improvement I noticed in terms of quality and sound much cleaner, warmer, and more detailed, I was also surprised that it sounded much louder. They certainly looked like other speakers. The E30 in DAC mode, because these speakers have remote control, therefore they do not need the E30 in PRE mode.
Now with E30 + L30, placing E30 in Dac, in L30 one knob in Pre and the other in 0dB, and the volume of L30 at height 2 of the clock, that is to say a little more than half, I must also increase the volume of the speakers to step 30 or 32, so they sound just as loud as when I only use them with the E30 and they are in step 22.
The only way to make them sound equally strong with E30 and E30 + L30, is to set it to + 9dB. But I think the cleanest thing is to leave it at 0dB.

In my case, I liked More DAC_Speakers. DAC_L30_speakers i liked less.

The correct way is that? Leaving the L30 in 0dB mode guarantees the cleanest mode, right?
And the active speakers at half volume. What do you guys think recommend? I don't think it is good to turn the speakers to maximum volume nor to turn the L30 to maximum volume. Half volume on speakers and regulate with the L30 knob. What do you guys think?

 

[bogi]

Would I be able to drive beyer T1 2nd gen with e30 + l30 stack? Supposedly has peaks to 1400ohms, which would mean I need up to 3.74vrms, and I think l30 is able to supply that right?

Do you have such an impedance graph with 1400Ohm peaks? I didn't see such one. I have seen this one from https://www.0db.co.kr/index.php?mid=REVIEW_0DB&category=182&document_srl=575546

Better to compute requirements from an average impedance than from peaks.

 

[bogi]

The old innerfidelity measurements of T1 show such an peak in bass region, but that's related to 1st generation of T1.

 

[Sin Hizer]

It is really simple. I like that the L30 has the knob to switch from Headphones to Pre, without the need to disconnect the headphones, and that you can always leave them connected....

Thanks for the reply. Glad it is that easy and it doesn’t sound like it would blow my headphones or speakers flipping back and forth frequently. My plan would be to hook up L30/E30 to LSR305s on my computer desk, set the L30 to a reasonable max volume then use my keyboard for volume control on headphones and speakers.

 

[MechEngVic]

Thanks for the reply. Glad it is that easy and it doesn’t sound like it would blow my headphones or speakers flipping back and forth frequently. My plan would be to hook up L30/E30 to LSR305s on my computer desk, set the L30 to a reasonable max volume then use my keyboard for volume control on headphones and speakers.

Flipping back and forth is a painless process with the L30. And you won't hear even the slightest pop. You can even pull the headphone plug out with music playing and you won't get any popping.

 

[Vini darko]

Agreed the relay switching is a real joy

 

[Mr:River]

@MechEngVic
What is your avatar project?
There it appears that the capacitance has been increased generously.

Were you waiting to know about He400i + L30 - E30?

Sorry my head is bad I forget things.

 

[MechEngVic]

@MechEngVic
What is your avatar project?
There it appears that the capacitance has been increased generously.

Were you waiting to know about He400i + L30 - E30?

Sorry my head is bad I forget things.

Avatar is my preamp: Nobsound NS-01P, I replaced the stock caps with ClarityCap and MultiCap, no change in values.

I was interested in the HE400i but I'm looking more closely at the Deva's. I'm worried about reports of thin bass in these Hifiman headphones. I'm not really a headphone guy but I have to use them a lot for work, school, and mixing projects, so I'm trying to find a pair with emphasis on bass, I already have real transparent ones, the Sennheiser HD300 Pro's.

But I'm interested in hearing anyone's sound impressions with a particular set of headphones and the L30.

 

[Mr:River]

Avatar is my preamp: Nobsound NS-01P, I replaced the stock caps with ClarityCap and MultiCap, no change in values.

I was interested in the HE400i but I'm looking more closely at the Deva's. I'm worried about reports of thin bass in these Hifiman headphones. I'm not really a headphone guy but I have to use them a lot for work, school, and mixing projects, so I'm trying to find a pair with emphasis on bass, I already have real transparent ones, the Sennheiser HD300 Pro's.

But I'm interested in hearing anyone's sound impressions with a particular set of headphones and the L30.

Wow!!
Hifiman with fine bass?
It’s not what I hear around here on my HE400i, I like it a lot precisely for its clarity and good bass, I sold my Fidelio X2HR to be only with HE400i, which I use a lot in films and blues, if the amplified he400i has serious eyes, try to hear one out there, you’ll like it, very comfortable and soaring very well with fast bass, bass drums etc, I would make a try if it were you.

I'm just wanting the L30 to better amplify the HE400i, I think I'll be even happier

I did not hear this new DEVA 169 $ against 300 $ He400i I did not understand this new and cheaper one, is it because it is plastic?

 

[solderdude]

Would I be able to drive beyer T1 2nd gen with e30 + l30 stack? Supposedly has peaks to 1400ohms, which would mean I need up to 3.74vrms, and I think l30 is able to supply that right?

An amplifier is a voltage source. The higher the impedance the less current is drawn.
This combo can reach 6V out which can bring it to 119dB peak levels.
These are impressively loud levels distortion free.
As said impedance doesn't matter at all.

 

[MechEngVic]

Wow!!
Hifiman with fine bass?
It’s not what I hear around here on my HE400i, I like it a lot precisely for its clarity and good bass, I sold my Fidelio X2HR to be only with HE400i, which I use a lot in films and blues, if the amplified he400i has serious eyes, try to hear one out there, you’ll like it, very comfortable and soaring very well with fast bass, bass drums etc, I would make a try if it were you.

I'm just wanting the L30 to better amplify the HE400i, I think I'll be even happier

I did not hear this new DEVA 169 $ against 300 $ He400i I did not understand this new and cheaper one, is it because it is plastic?

Well that's good to hear about the Hifiman's, I really want to try magnetic planars.

On Amazon, the HE-400i is 169.00 and the Deva's are 219.00. Can you tell me where you found the Deva's for 169? From what I can tell, they are the same headphone technically, just design feature differences.