Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)

[SiamXIII]

It looks like this amp only has balanced IN. Would there be any way to connect it to my Marantz AVR, which has RCA pre-out? (Without ruining the sound quality?)

It has jack ports in center of xlr. So you can use RCA - Jack cables. But in balanced it works best.

 

[SashaR]

It looks like this amp only has balanced IN. Would there be any way to connect it to my Marantz AVR, which has RCA pre-out? (Without ruining the sound quality?)

If I understood your question correctly, then keep in mind that the XLR connectors of the LA90 are COMBINED and you can also plug RCA plugs into them - but whether they can be UN-balanced, I don’t know.

 

[SashaR]

I didn't read all your posts, but something you might not have considered is that your speaker could be the reason for the better sound at higher levels. Some speakers (large ones especially), can really start to sound great once they're at med-high to high levels. They seem to just "come into their own" when louder - I don't know the technical reason for it, but if I had to guess I'd say it probably varies speaker to speaker and is a combination of things, and it's likely room interaction contributes as well). The LA90 is so clean compared to 99.999% of other amps, and since it also has a low output impedance, it does a near perfect job as an amplifier. These properties might be the reason you didn't notice with other amps

It's something to consider!


Also, best practice for minimum distortion is to use your DAC at its full output level and use the volume control on the front of the amp.

If you're using a PC, put all of its volume controls in the way of the signal to 100%, and try to use WASAPI or ASIO. Don't resample or modify the signal with any DSP

I am VERY grateful to you for the most detailed clarifications and explanations! Thank you very much!!!
Quite by accident, just today, before I saw your answer, I increased the volume to 70 - 75 - (80 dB in peaks). I don’t know if the application works correctly on my phone - the numbers are from it. The result was exactly what you described: the sound became better!
But I can’t use (such) volume to improve the sound - my neighbors will take me to jail... And besides that, I’ll go deaf...

Is there another way - besides looking for speakers that sound good at low volumes too?

Do you know such speakers? How to find them??? EVERYONE wants LOUD, VERY LOUD sounds - maybe there are no speakers in nature with a range of 20-30 Hz - 20,000 Hz that are capable of reproducing quality music quietly?

Once again, thank you SO MUCH for all your advice, clarifications and warnings! Thank you very much for your kindness!

 

[SashaR]

Hello,
I was allowed to compare the yba pasion ia350a amplifier with my LA90 - in my apartment. How can you explain that the unprecedentedly magnificent LA90 sounds worse than an amplifier with only 95 dB signal-to-noise ratio (I couldn’t find any other measurements)??? I compared at all volume levels available on the LA90, including in mono configuration. If there is no distortion, if we have a direct wire, then how can we explain that it sounds worse (there are no details, especially in the highs - but I’m only talking about what is obviously below 12 kHz).
Thanks for explanation!

 

[mike70]

Hello,
I was allowed to compare the yba pasion ia350a amplifier with my LA90 - in my apartment. How can you explain that the unprecedentedly magnificent LA90 sounds worse than an amplifier with only 95 dB signal-to-noise ratio (I couldn’t find any other measurements)??? I compared at all volume levels available on the LA90, including in mono configuration. If there is no distortion, if we have a direct wire, then how can we explain that it sounds worse (there are no details, especially in the highs - but I’m only talking about what is obviously below 12 kHz).
Thanks for explanation!

blind listening with levelled gain? if the answer is yes, i believe you, the YBA sounds better (to you).
If the answer is no ... well, i don´t believe you literally ... the YBA CAN sound better ... or not (to you).

In other point of view, remember that higher SINAD "it means" a better internal engineering ... but you don´t need more than 70-80dB in the real world to be indistinguishable. Don´t think better SINAD translates directly to better sound, that´s a great misconception.

 

[SashaR]

blind listening with levelled gain? if the answer is yes, i believe you, the YBA sounds better (to you).
If the answer is no ... well, i don´t believe you literally ... the YBA CAN sound better ... or not (to you).

In other point of view, remember that higher SINAD "it means" a better internal engineering ... but you don´t need more than 70-80dB in the real world to be indistinguishable. Don´t think better SINAD translates directly to better sound, that´s a great misconception.

Yes, the comparison was made not only at the same volume, but sometimes even at a volume that was CONSCIOUSLY increased on the LA90 to check whether it would sound more intelligible, more precise and fuller.
Yes, you are right: it turned out that even with “SNR >95” even 160 watts\4 ohms do not create audible noise at zero music volume.
But my question is different: how can it be that a direct wire without distortion (LA90 with a fantastically low THD) sounds dull and hazy compared to an amplifier with THD <0.03% ???

I've tested at low volumes as well, and at more than 80 dB - and I'm always worse at distinguishing details in high frequencies (cymbal hits, for example. This is Mahler's 3rd symphony at the beginning) when using the LA90.
I don't want to think that my LA90 has become worse in performance (although it has been working for a year+, sometimes 24 hours, and usually 8-10+ hours a day), and I don't want to spend money on testing the LA90D, although it has VERY low dependence of the magnitude of distortion on the signal frequency... But, on the other hand, the 11.11 discount will end in a few hours!!!
Is YBA an honest company or, for example, did they deliberately use some nonlinearities in order to emphasize/make certain parts of the spectrum distinguishable? I ask this because on their website I found a strange text that I did NOT COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND: here

 

[mocenigo]

? I ask this because on their website I found a strange text that I did NOT COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND: here

That text is wrong AND confusing.

They are conflating balanced with class B push pull Balanced means you have two opposite signals. A class B design has two amplifiers, of which one only amplifiers the positive signal, and is off during the negative signal, and the other one amplifies only the signal while it is negative and is off while the signal is positive. In that case you may have a distortion (cross-over distort) when the signal crosses the zero point.

Use of XLR is a way to transport the signal, it necessarily balanced. The signal is the difference of hot and cold pins, instead of being relative to ground. This reduces interferences, noise, and also crosstalk between channels. In fact, XLR can be used to carry SE signals.

First of all a good AB design has NO cross over distortion. The circuit needs to be done properly, but this something that has been solved for almost 40 years.

So, I repeat: That text is wrong AND confusing. Since they know how to design amplifiers, there is no way it can be written honestly. They know what they have written and they know it is incorrect.

And, well, they say 0.03% distortion but at which frequency and at which wattage? If you need more power, your actual distortion may be higher. If their circuits are not push pulls, then they may have 2nd order harmonic distortion which, in small amounts, is pleasant. And this may explain your observations.

Finally, since you KNOW that you have slightly increased the volume of the LA90, your brain now can distinguish them blind and apply bias.

 

[Roland68]

That text is wrong AND confusing.

They are conflating balanced with class B push pull Balanced means you have two opposite signals. A class B design has two amplifiers, of which one only amplifiers the positive signal, and is off during the negative signal, and the other one amplifies only the signal while it is negative and is off while the signal is positive. In that case you may have a distortion (cross-over distort) when the signal crosses the zero point.

Use of XLR is a way to transport the signal, it necessarily balanced. The signal is the difference of hot and cold pins, instead of being relative to ground. This reduces interferences, noise, and also crosstalk between channels. In fact, XLR can be used to carry SE signals.

First of all a good AB design has NO cross over distortion. The circuit needs to be done properly, but this something that has been solved for almost 40 years.

So, I repeat: That text is wrong AND confusing. Since they know how to design amplifiers, there is no way it can be written honestly. They know what they have written and they know it is incorrect.

And, well, they say 0.03% distortion but at which frequency and at which wattage? If you need more power, your actual distortion may be higher. If their circuits are not push pulls, then they may have 2nd order harmonic distortion which, in small amounts, is pleasant. And this may explain your observations.

Finally, since you KNOW that you have slightly increased the volume of the LA90, your brain now can distinguish them blind and apply bias.

Unfortunately you didn't read the title, the text is all about balanced small signal processing in preamplifiers, CD players and so on. And what they write is unfortunately (mostly) true, even if the text is a bit bumpy.
It has nothing to do with power amplifiers and nothing is written about speaker amplifiers in this text.
What they write is the reason why I now use my own boards to convert SE to Balanced and vice versa.

 

[mocenigo]

Unfortunately you didn't read the title, the text is all about balanced small signal processing in preamplifiers, CD players and so on. And what they write is unfortunately (mostly) true, even if the text is a bit bumpy.
It has nothing to do with power amplifiers and nothing is written about speaker amplifiers in this text.
What they write is the reason why I now use my own boards to convert SE to Balanced and vice versa.

Then what they write is even worse, because they write:
"In balanced, you have one stage taking care of the positive part of the signal and a second stage taking care of the negative and then you add both together to receive or to send to another unit (amplifier, preamplifier). In adding them you create something that nobody wants; it is a cross distortion."
And this is NEVER how a preamplifier or output stage of a CD player/DAC works. In this case they almost always work like two class A circuits 180º out of phase with each other. Exactly like your unbalanced to balanced circuit (if done properly).

Sorry, they are either implementing their stuff wrong, or they are lying.

Roberto

 

[Ricwa]

But my question is different: how can it be that a direct wire without distortion (LA90 with a fantastically low THD) sounds dull and hazy compared to an amplifier with THD <0.03% ???

An amplifier with higher distortion can sound more detailed (less dull and hazy) due to the higher amplitude harmonics (distortion). Although the higher distortion amp may sound better over short listening intervals, it can become fatiguing over time.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

sounds worse (there are no details, especially in the highs -

You heard no details, just exaggerated highs - distortion exactly what all those 'hi end' amp do.

Hope that helps.

 

[SashaR]

An amplifier with higher distortion can sound more detailed (less dull and hazy) due to the higher amplitude harmonics (distortion). Although the higher distortion amp may sound better over short listening intervals, it can become fatiguing over time.

Is there any indirect way to confirm the assumption that distortions have a “positive” effect? For example, I am not only able, but I prefer to turn down the volume of a more expensive (and more powerful - 166 watts per channel) amplifier compared to the volume of the LA90, which begins to sound like a more expensive and more powerful amplifier only at higher volumes. That is, having compared both of them at the same volume, I hear better the more powerful one - but it is perceived as UNNECESSARY loud (and at a much lower volume everything is perfectly audible). And it’s impossible to listen to LA90 at such a starting volume - the music disappears, you need to increase the volume and then small details appear that you can hear in a powerful amplifier even at low volume - but then it becomes too loud, it’s just uncomfortable!
Can you use this information to answer the question - which of these two amplifiers is faulty (after all, the LA90 can also fail after more than a year of continuous daily use for many hours)?
What method can be used to understand what is happening with these two amplifiers?

 

[SashaR]

You heard no details, just exaggerated highs - distortion exactly what all those 'hi end' amp do.

Hope that helps.

Just posted my impressions of a more thorough comparison of these two amplifiers. I will add that the more powerful of these amplifiers does NOT tire you out - rather, on the contrary, it makes listening more comfortable, not only because of the ability to listen to quiet music, but also because of the richness of the music (but I can’t say anything about this - I don’t know, Is it interference or the high-quality work of this amplifier - or, conversely, the poor work of MY LA90)

 

[Ricwa]

Is there any indirect way to confirm the assumption that distortions have a “positive” effect? For example, I am not only able, but I prefer to turn down the volume of a more expensive (and more powerful - 166 watts per channel) amplifier compared to the volume of the LA90, which begins to sound like a more expensive and more powerful amplifier only at higher volumes. That is, having compared both of them at the same volume, I hear better the more powerful one - but it is perceived as UNNECESSARY loud (and at a much lower volume everything is perfectly audible). And it’s impossible to listen to LA90 at such a starting volume - the music disappears, you need to increase the volume and then small details appear that you can hear in a powerful amplifier even at low volume - but then it becomes too loud, it’s just uncomfortable!
Can you use this information to answer the question - which of these two amplifiers is faulty (after all, the LA90 can also fail after more than a year of continuous daily use for many hours)?
What method can be used to understand what is happening with these two amplifiers?

Your method is a good one! If you prefer to turn down the volume, your subconscious is giving you a negative impression of that amplifier. So your indirect confirmation answer is right there in your question and it’s telling you that of the two, your preference is for the LA90.

As to missing the details, I believe you but I’d also wager that your definition of details will change over time. What you may be hearing is exaggerated details due to distortion. As you pay attention to those subtle details, you may very well train your ear to prefer them as they are… subtle.

 

[manisandher]

But my question is different: how can it be that a direct wire without distortion (LA90 with a fantastically low THD) sounds dull and hazy compared to an amplifier with THD <0.03% ???

I use pair of mono LA90s (original, non-D versions) in the following system: Auralic (streamer) -> SMSL SU-10 (DAC) -> LA90 monos -> KEF R5 speakers

The overall sound is anything but "dull and hazy". I would go on to say that this system is probably the best SQ-for-money system I've ever put together. The speakers are no doubt the weakest link, but for the GBP 1000 I paid for them (new, on offer), I doubt they could be bettered.

Of course, I really can't comment on what you're hearing at your end...

Mani.

 

[SashaR]

Your method is a good one! If you prefer to turn down the volume, your subconscious is giving you a negative impression of that amplifier. So your indirect confirmation answer is right there in your question and it’s telling you that of the two, your preference is for the LA90.

As to missing the details, I believe you but I’d also wager that your definition of details will change over time. What you may be hearing is exaggerated details due to distortion. As you pay attention to those subtle details, you may very well train your ear to prefer them as they are… subtle.

What you are telling me sounds logical, but the problem is that I poorly and inaccurately described the situation: I was able to clearly hear the parts of all instruments in all their details - and THEREFORE I did not need to demand high volume.
But this does not eliminate the possibility that the amplifier "unconsciously" emphasizes high frequencies (if this can explain the higher intelligibility and purity of the sound).

 

[AudioBoy]

I think I understand what SashaR is talking about.

I have 2x LA 90 in mono mode.
The scheme is as follows: PC -> RME ADI2 DAC FS -> Nuemann KH750 -> LA90 -> Dynaudio Countour 2.0i.

These speakers from Dynaudio are known for their demanding amplifier requirements. The manufacturer stated that its sensitivity is 86 dB (I doubt it).
Dynaudio speakers subjectively sound better when the volume is higher. There are more high frequencies and overall the sound is more intelligible and rich. I don't listen to music loudly most of the time, and at low volumes the speakers seem dull and voices are less intelligible.

I also have a set of Polk Audio R200 Reserve speakers. The manufacturer also claims that they have a sensitivity of 86 dB. For experimental purposes, I replaced Dinaudio with Polk R200 and listened to music on these speakers all week.

The Polk R200 sounds louder and BRIGHTER than the Dynaudio! Treble and detail are present even at lower volumes. But this is just my subjective opinion.

To understand what has changed, you need to look at the measurements, which is what I did.

Here is a graph of the frequency response of both speakers along with the sub in an unequalized state. VAR smoothing. The jagged frequency response is not important here; It's more important to understand why some speakers are brighter than others at the same DAC volume level.

The R200 is louder, which confirms subjective perception and measurements. I even had to turn it down (-3.4 dB) so that the frequency response graphs were at the same SPL level.

What about distortion?

As you can see, the Polk Audio R200 is a bit worse in the high frequencies. But I don't sure could I be able to hear this at all.

What conclusion did I draw for myself?

This amplifier has nothing to do with the brightness or dullness of certain frequencies. SPEAKERS are responsible for this. Some are more difficult to swing, meaning they are less sensitive (for example, because they are larger and speaker drivers weigh more). It is also important how the speakers interact with the room (the presence or absence of an SBIR effect for part of the frequency range). And ultimately – the volume level. Anything louder sounds better.

It is pity I don't have another amplifier (but I planned to buy this or something else later).

If I'm not mistaken, SashaR has not yet provided any objective measurements of his system, except for his own subjective feelings, which can be very inaccurate or false. For example, how would you know that you set the volume level on different amplifiers to the same level if you didn't measure?

So my advice is to start measuring and share your measurements with us .

 

[SashaR]

If I'm not mistaken, SashaR has not yet provided any objective measurements of his system, except for his own subjective feelings, which can be very inaccurate or false. For example, how would you know that you set the volume level on different amplifiers to the same level if you didn't measure?

So my advice is to start measuring and share your measurements with us .

Thank you! I equalize the volume of amplifiers using an application on my phone. Additionally, just to be sure, I turned the bright amp's volume down below an equivalent level - and the brightness/clarity continued to be higher than the LA90.
In addition, the person who agreed to play my problems confidently said that he could more easily hear the lyrics of the song (I only listen to classics) - but added that he did not know what was “correct” (reference).
In addition, tomorrow a professional pianist promised to come to me: I asked him to tell me which amplifier creates a sound more SIMILAR to the sound of a real piano.
Once again: I do not have a quality microphone, and therefore I did not learn to use testing / measuring programs.

 

[AudioBoy]

Once again: I do not have a quality microphone, and therefore I did not learn to use testing / measuring programs.

I highly recommend buying a measurement microphone (maybe someone could borrow you it), because this purchase could save you a couple of thousand dollars that you want to spend on a new amp.

Learning how to measure acoustics in REW is very simple. Here you will definitely be helped with your first steps in this direction.

Edit: If you need more treble, I would suggest buying a speaker with a ribbon tweeter. I once had an Airpulse A300 and it has such detailed sound that I have never heard from any other speakers.

 

[SashaR]

Please let me ask one more question about the LA90 compared to the LA90-D. Can anyone comment on the perceived difference in sound quality between LA90 AND LA90-D??? I KNOW there can't be an audible difference! But I am interested in the result of the superposition of two opposing trends in the LA90-D. On the one hand, its THD has worsened compared to the LA90. And the third harmonic grew. This means that the sound quality has become worse (even if it is not very audible). But, on the other hand, LA90-D has NO dependence of distortion on sound frequency, distortion does not increase with increasing sound frequency and remains very low, although higher than that of LA90 - i.e., LA90-D is even less ... What? Less bright, dimmer, more accurate? Or does the 3 dB of added noise and interference negate the benefit of reducing distortion? Objectively (measured, not subjectively!) the LA90 is superior to the LA90-D in terms of sound QUALITY, in terms of more accurate compliance with the original, or vice versa, does the LA90-D provide a more correct sound?