Measurements of Sonore microRendu Streamer

[ceedee]

Patience runs thin. Did they ever get through the BS and actually present anything that disputes Amir's results?

Tim

Not as far as I can tell. Like many manufacturers in audio, they seem to be gifted at writing so much with so little content. Plenty of jabs at Amir, though.

Someone just asked an interesting question:

Thanks for the measurements, AMR
Can you clarify one thing, please? What are the details behind this - "The lowest ground noise setup was used with a 9V iPower"?
Does it mean that an iPower is plugged into a balanced isolation transformer?

As Amir mentioned, if they did this, the results reflect a setup that wouldn't be normally used by their customers.

 

[alfe]

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...art-4-uploaded-and-complete-28982/#post558122

If you have to add an isolation transformer, you better hire your favourite Jazz band to play in your living room it will cost you less.

 

[Tim Tom]

Yup, if the measurements show a bad result in the mode I'm using it in then I will indeed box it up and send it on its way quicker then shit thru a goose.

Life's too short to listen to compromised hi-fi

If you're looking for someone else to tell you whether you should like it or not, this could be of interest. No measurements though ... http://www.audiostream.com/content/sonore-simple-design-microrendu#VcTMcZQUvKHEE65y.97

 

[dallasjustice]

If you're looking for someone else to tell you whether you should like it or not, this could be of interest. No measurements though ... http://www.audiostream.com/content/sonore-simple-design-microrendu#VcTMcZQUvKHEE65y.97

He also recommends not using the ifi PSU with the microrendude; seems consistent with Amir's measures.

 

[Tim Tom]

He also recommends not using the ifi PSU with the microrendude; seems consistent with Amir's measures.

From the review: "I have the iFi power supply and Sonore's own Signature Series Linear Power Supply. For a very good sounding budget setup, the iFi supply works wonders. If you want the microRendu to sound exceptionally good, get the Sonore supply." Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/sonore-simple-design-microrendu#wsq0yWH3Wja3fWcG.99

How do you arrive at your conclusion that he recommends not using the ifi PSU?

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

"In order to use the microRendu you need to have a few other things; a music collection stored on either a NAS or a hard drive attached to or inside a server, an Ethernet network, and a USB DAC attached to your hi-fi. Depending on which output mode you choose to use, the NAS or server must also run the appropriate software.
Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/sonore-simple-design-microrendu#yzRZWMmmUMa285ai.99"

So...what does it do?

Tim

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

"In order to use the microRendu you need to have a few other things; a music collection stored on either a NAS or a hard drive attached to or inside a server, an Ethernet network, and a USB DAC attached to your hi-fi. Depending on which output mode you choose to use, the NAS or server must also run the appropriate software.
Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/sonore-simple-design-microrendu#yzRZWMmmUMa285ai.99"

So...what does it do?

Tim

Still confused?

It is a tiny, fanless PC that acts as a renderer or player in conjunction with certain types of music library software on your main PC or NAS. It connects to those via your Ethernet network, which allows for very long cable lengths. Its output is USB, which is connected to your DAC. USB cable is typically limited to about 15 feet.

In a nutshell, that is what it does. I will not go into claims about how, in the process, it allegedly makes things sound better than a straight USB connection from PC or (rarely) the NAS and performing the player/renderer functions there instead.

It is not the only such device on the market. Some are much cheaper, and there are numerous DIY possibilities. But, it is the most aggressive in making claims about improved sound quality in the process.

 

[Sal1950]

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...art-4-uploaded-and-complete-28982/#post555510

I did somewhat enjoy reading the new infomercial at CA, it had some humorous writing in the poorly concealed jabs at Amir and a nice job with the graphics.
As for presenting any real counter evidence, nope, no cigar. I didn't see any but I am sorely lacking in knowledge.

 

[dallasjustice]

Fitz, I'm with you. This whole thing has been very confusing.

1. I didn't know the CA thread from AMR/IFI was done in reference to this thread. IFI doesn't say anything about this thread, so how can we assume it is about this thread and Amir?

2. Amir's measurements show that there's nothing wrong with the microrendude unless one doesn't use it with the ifi PSU and that it doesn't seem to be well designed to reject power supply noise. IOW, the best performance from the microrendude requires a "better" power supply. But that's exactly what all of the subjective reviewers are saying as well. Right? Chris Connacker said he hears an improvement with an upgraded power supply and so does Lavorgna. Aren't those subjective impressions consistent with Amir's findings?

3. Amir's measurement show that there's no "lowest" noise floor with the microrendude. At best its the same. After thousand of words spilled in a four part "white paper", AMR/IFI still has not even shown any tests with the microrendude with the ifi PSU. There's been a lot of colorful commentary with some scientistics looking graphs. But nothing about the microrendude.

Why can't we all get along?

 

[Thomas savage]

Fitz, I'm with you. This whole thing has been very confusing.

1. I didn't know the CA thread from AMR/IFI was done in reference to this thread. IFI doesn't say anything about this thread, so how can we assume it is about this thread and Amir?

2. Amir's measurements show that there's nothing wrong with the microrendude unless one doesn't use it with the ifi PSU and that it doesn't seem to be well designed to reject power supply noise. IOW, the best performance from the microrendude requires a "better" power supply. But that's exactly what all of the subjective reviewers are saying as well. Right? Chris Connacker said he hears an improvement with an upgraded power supply and so does Lavorgna. Aren't those subjective impressions consistent with Amir's findings?

3. Amir's measurement show that there's no "lowest" noise floor with the microrendude. At best its the same. After thousand of words spilled in a four part "white paper", AMR/IFI still has even tested the microrendude with the ifi PSU. There's been a lot of colorful commentary with some scientistics looking graphs. But nothing about the microrendude.

Why can't we all get along?

 

[Sal1950]

Kumbaya

Kumbaya my butt.
( video removed for being too gross lol)

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Still confused?

It is a tiny, fanless PC that acts as a renderer or player in conjunction with certain types of music library software on your main PC or NAS. It connects to those via your Ethernet network, which allows for very long cable lengths. Its output is USB, which is connected to your DAC. USB cable is typically limited to about 15 feet.

In a nutshell, that is what it does. I will not go into claims about how, in the process, it allegedly makes things sound better than a straight USB connection from PC or (rarely) the NAS and performing the player/renderer functions there instead.

It is not the only such device on the market. Some are much cheaper, and there are numerous DIY possibilities. But, it is the most aggressive in making claims about improved sound quality in the process.

I was joking. But given that it has no storage, no DAC, no software, and still requires a PC or server and, oh yeah, a pad of some kind for a visual interface, I was only half-joking. Especially given that Amir's measurements (the only measurements of the analog output we've seen) show that it doesn't reduce noise relative to coming straight out of his PC. With either usb power or a $1300 linear power supply, its noise performance is identical to what he got when he bypassed it altogether. So it seems that all it does is convert ethernet to usb. Unless I am still confused. Noise is the big bugaboo audiophiles worry about with PCs, and it's got nothing there. Jitter? Does it re-clock? I can get a DAC to do that, plus convert, plus provide me with a pre and a headphone amp, for less. So I guess the answer to my question is it takes ethernet in and puts USB out, and sprinkles fairy dust on your zeros and ones on their way through. Am I missing anything? It's a wonder it has generated this much conversation.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Fitz, I'm with you. This whole thing has been very confusing.

1. I didn't know the CA thread from AMR/IFI was done in reference to this thread. IFI doesn't say anything about this thread, so how can we assume it is about this thread and Amir?

2. Amir's measurements show that there's nothing wrong with the microrendude unless one doesn't use it with the ifi PSU and that it doesn't seem to be well designed to reject power supply noise. IOW, the best performance from the microrendude requires a "better" power supply. But that's exactly what all of the subjective reviewers are saying as well. Right? Chris Connacker said he hears an improvement with an upgraded power supply and so does Lavorgna. Aren't those subjective impressions consistent with Amir's findings?

3. Amir's measurement show that there's no "lowest" noise floor with the microrendude. At best its the same. After thousand of words spilled in a four part "white paper", AMR/IFI still has not even shown any tests with the microrendude with the ifi PSU. There's been a lot of colorful commentary with some scientistics looking graphs. But nothing about the microrendude.

Why can't we all get along?

Maybe I'm still confused, but I don't think so. I think Amir's measurements showed that the noise floors were identical using his linear PS and USB power. The better PS had no effect. The wall wart created noise. I think his measurements also showed the same noise floor when he took the thing out of the chain altogether and plugged his PC directly into his DAC. And people wonder where such audiophile skepticism comes from?

Tim

 

[NorthSky]

It's the new rage because it's small, compact, complete (almost...with a power supply), and it SOUNDS good, real good.
Plus! It doesn't cost $30,000 but only $640 USA dollars (plus the power supply).

Next year someone will come up with a smaller one, more complete, power supply included, two times less money, and better sounding.
We'd better have a reserved space here for a new thread. ...For the measurements and all that jazz...

 

[Sal1950]

Kumbaya my butt.
( video removed for being too gross lol)

Opps, Sorry Thomas, didn't want to disturb your delicate stomach.
Hope this makes the cut.

"My life makes perfect sense
Lust and food and violence
Sex and money are my major kicks
Get me in a fight I like dirty tricks
'cos if you wanna run cool
Yes if you wanna run cool, you got to run
On heavy, heavy fuel"

 

[cjf]

Opps, Sorry Thomas, didn't want to disturb your delicate stomach.
Hope this makes the cut.

"My life makes perfect sense
Lust and food and violence
Sex and money are my major kicks
Get me in a fight I like dirty tricks
'cos if you wanna run cool
Yes if you wanna run cool, you got to run
On heavy, heavy fuel"

Good tune! One of my favorites from Dire Straits

 

[cjf]

If you're looking for someone else to tell you whether you should like it or not, this could be of interest. No measurements though ... http://www.audiostream.com/content/sonore-simple-design-microrendu#VcTMcZQUvKHEE65y.97

All of the gear I own was chosen first based on its published measured performance then confirmed via subjective listening impressions. If measurements do not exist of a piece of gear that initially catches my eye then I move on to something else. Its that simple. The only exception to that rule for me is computer audio. With computer audio measured performance is unfortunately rare to see. In this case I fall back on my knowledge of computers gathered from 20 yrs working as an IT professional. If measurements do come to the surface of a computer related audio product after a purchase has already been made and those measurements show a negative outcome then the gear in question will be retired or sold.

Luckily this mRendu is the only example thus far that could result in the need to act on a possible sale or retirement of said gear. It matters ZERO to me if I liked it previously or not. Were dealing with an inanimate object here, not a loved one or other human being. Making a decision to let it go for something better shouldn't take more than a few mins of thought otherwise professional help should be sought after for separation anxiety issues

 

[Tim Tom]

Thomas: You may benefit from this observation. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/microrendu-measurements-thread/11761/204?u=tim_hartford

 

[amirm]

Thomas: You may benefit from this observation. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/microrendu-measurements-thread/11761/204?u=tim_hartford

Please refrain from these jabs. Moderator function on any forum is an unpaid, difficult, volunteer job. Last thing these moderators deserve is this type of post.

We have a different mission in this forum than Roonlabs. Their forum is around people who use Roon. Ours is to advance understanding of audio science. This is a far more difficult job with some people simply not understanding what we do here. We have provided huge latitude to members who clearly have an opposite agenda. But at some point enough is enough. Don't be here if you want to fight how the audio science and engineering is advanced in real world. And certainly don't expect anything but a cheer when you leave.

 

[Thomas savage]

Thomas: You may benefit from this observation. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/microrendu-measurements-thread/11761/204?u=tim_hartford

Yes I agree the moderator over at the roonlabs forum is doing a good job in that thread. he is very professional when going about his duties, I notice he has deleted a lot! I read through that thread a while a go and a did take some pointers.

It's a very different vibe from our forum and indeed has a very very different task or mission,( it represents a brand and product, it has to be sanitised in the fashion it is) I like to see personalities flourish here, members are encouraged to post with humour and gile. I have not really taken any moderator action in this thread, I have but only expressed my view as a member albeit with a little extra weight bestowed onto my sentiments due to my office.

I go about my work differently, your disapproval is noted. As is the way it was delivered.

Have you anything of value to add? I would think the roonlabs moderator would no doubt delete that last post of yours and indeed possibly others...

If I was to do that ( delete so much in this thread) I would be accused of 'censorship of the debate ' , you can't win. The job is indeed a thankless task!

I will carry on keeping it 'street'