Fosi Audio V3 op-amp rolling, has anyone tried it? Snake oil? Or are there actual differences?

[Djano]

So you literally haven't heard any difference in swapping opamps?
I'm not talking regarding v3, infact in any of the designs which use opamps to make differential stage?

I have never tried. If I had, maybe I would also have heard a difference. That does not mean that the difference actually exists (expectation bias). And if it exists, that does not mean it would be an improvement in every way vaguely imaginable (soundstage, dynamics and so on).
To always perceive a difference, and a positive one, suggests bias is at play.

 

[nishamn27]

I have never tried. If I had, maybe I would also have heard a difference. That does not mean that the difference actually exists (expectation bias). And if it exists, that does not mean it would be an improvement in every way vaguely imaginable (soundstage, dynamics and so on).
To always perceive a difference, and a positive one, suggests bias is at play.

I wish companies like Texas instruments had been advised of the same. They could have stoped improving the design and stoped investing million to the r&d for making new opamps ages ago

Anyways. Good for you!..no offense

 

[Joe Smith]

I was using opa1656 with fosi v3 ever since I got the uni. Tried putting in opa1612 today. I felt a great improvement overall. Dynamics felt better, bass felt more defined and the upper midrange seems to have more air. Transparency got way better. Soundstage and placement felt more solid.

I would recommend trying opa1612 for people who havnt had a thought about it.

Thank you

Did you solder your 1612s or are they available somewhere in dip-8 configuration?

 

[BDWoody]

So you do mean to say there is absolutely no difference between opa1656 and opa1612 in actual listening terms ?

I'm saying that without meaningful controls it isn't going to be taken very seriously.

I wish companies like Texas instruments had been advised of the same. They could have stoped improving the design and stoped investing million to the r&d for making new opamps ages ago

It's about how a circuit behaves with the parts it was designed for, vs putting in random parts under the assumption that a 'better' op-amp will lead to a better result.

 

[nishamn27]

Did you solder your 1612s or are they available somewhere in dip-8 configuration?

Solderd into the dip adapter

 

[nishamn27]

I'm saying that without meaningful controls it isn't going to be taken very seriously.



It's about how a circuit behaves with the parts it was designed for, vs putting in random parts under the assumption that a 'better' op-amp will lead to a better result.

So you agree to the fact that different opamps behaves different with different circuits?

I believe that is exactly what people are trying to say it brings sonic differences while swapping opamps into the same circuit

 

[Saponetto]

Premise, I am skeptic on putting parts on a non-optimized circuitry.
If "sonic difference" is the target of "Op-Amp Rolling", then let the DSP do the dirty job you crave and leave those 5332 in their sockets.

 

[nishamn27]

Premise, I am skeptic on putting parts on a non-optimized circuitry.
If "sonic difference" is the target of "Op-Amp Rolling", then let the DSP do the dirty job you crave and leave those 5332 in their sockets.

That might be your personal choice. Why do you want to push people into it.
If people are finding joy in making things sound different with rolling opamps let them do it.
There is no specific rule book for listening music or choosing your taste. It doesn't harm you in anyway.

Please take things in the on the lighter side. Let everyone enjoy their piece.

If you feel you dsp should do the dirty job, you do the dirty job with your dsp, rather than giving a suggestion don't force others into it.

Again you do agree that opamps make difference in different circuits.

 

[Saponetto]

Heh, peace, pal.
I have no interest on drive or force anybody doing something he doesn't want to do.
Simply be positive and accept that if you just crave "sonic difference" from opamp swapping without any modification to the circuit board, you can easily get it in other more manageable ways.
Maybe less satisfatory, but these still exist.

 

[nishamn27]

Heh, peace, pal.
I have no interest on drive or force anybody doing something he doesn't want to do.
Simply be positive and accept that if you just crave "sonic difference" from opamp swapping without any modification to the circuit board, you can easily get it in other more manageable ways.
Maybe less satisfatory, but these still exist.

That's exactly what I was saying, let there be other ways you can get sonic differences out of the amp. That doesn't mean opamp rolling should not be done.
Any amplifier which uses an opamp to make differential stage will make differences sonicaly with different opamps in the circuit. This is a fact.

There is no harm in trying things.

Playing with dsp or whatever it is , is also a path taken to make a difference sonically. Nobody has got an objection in that as well.

To what I remember this community was far more friendly and chill about things till recent. I don't know what people are trying to prove here.

Like I said, take it chill, at the end of the day what matters is music.

 

[nishamn27]

Heh, peace, pal.
I have no interest on drive or force anybody doing something he doesn't want to do.
Simply be positive and accept that if you just crave "sonic difference" from opamp swapping without any modification to the circuit board, you can easily get it in other more manageable ways.
Maybe less satisfatory, but these still exist.

Also, if you get a chance, kindly try listening to opa1612 with the v3. No pressure, only if are interested in experimenting.

I'm very much looking forward to get a feedback from you

 

[Saponetto]

Not so exciting argument for me, pal.
Have a pleasant evening.

 

[antcollinet]

I wish companies like Texas instruments had been advised of the same. They could have stoped improving the design and stoped investing million to the r&d for making new opamps ages ago

Anyways. Good for you!..no offense

I'm gonna refer you back to another post in this thread:

Fosi Audio V3 op-amp rolling, has anyone tried it? Snake oil? Or are there actual differences?

Luckily, those points of view are subjectivly based on "opinions" of either side :) As long as everone is satisfied by his personal choice I really don't care...

audiosciencereview.com

Summary - swapping out op amps might create an audible difference, but probably won't. If it does, it is significantly more likley to make things objectively worse than better. EVEN if the op amp you are putting in has a "better" spec than the one it is replacing.

The performance doesn't come from the op amp on it's own, but together with the surrounding circuitry which has been specifically designed to match the characteristics of the selected op amp.

Worst case there is a low, but non zero chance of turning your amp into a power oscillator - which will do really nasty things to your tweeters, and possibly your eardrums.

 

[nishamn27]

Not so exciting argument for me, pal.
Have a pleasant evening.

I believe it was you who came up with an argument.i dint even understand what was it for.

Also I still don't understand your point. On one hand you say opamp makes difference, on the other hand you say it doesn't.

Anyways. Good day to you too!

 

[BDWoody]

Any amplifier which uses an opamp to make differential stage will make differences sonicaly with different opamps in the circuit. This is a fact.

Based on what?

If you're talking about causing it to measure differently, then yes, I would agree.

If you are claiming as fact that it will always sound different to a listener, that would need actual evidence.

Those are two very different things.

 

[nishamn27]

Based on what?

If you're talking about causing it to measure differently, then yes, I would agree.

If you are claiming as fact that it will always sound different to a listener, that would need actual evidence.

Those are two very different things.

I never said anything about measurments. They make a difference in "actual sound"
Each opamp has got a set of characters that affect performance. I'm not talking about testing with 1khz test tone. But while playing actual music. Slew rate and settling time are for example some of the key factors.
I'm not claiming it would improve the measurments, it may even make it worse depending on the circuit implemented.
But yes, it makes a difference in sound.


The whole point in following this passion is to experience difference in sound, atleast to me

If you are really interested in checking it out, you are whole heartedly welcome to try swapping em. The recent swap I did was from opa1656 to opa1612 in the v3.
It made a difference in sound and I'm not gonna deny that.

 

[nishamn27]

I'm gonna refer you back to another post in this thread:

Fosi Audio V3 op-amp rolling, has anyone tried it? Snake oil? Or are there actual differences?

Luckily, those points of view are subjectivly based on "opinions" of either side :) As long as everone is satisfied by his personal choice I really don't care...

audiosciencereview.com

Summary - swapping out op amps might create an audible difference, but probably won't. If it does, it is significantly more likley to make things objectively worse than better. EVEN if the op amp you are putting in has a "better" spec than the one it is replacing.

The performance doesn't come from the op amp on it's own, but together with the surrounding circuitry which has been specifically designed to match the characteristics of the selected op amp.

Worst case there is a low, but non zero chance of turning your amp into a power oscillator - which will do really nasty things to your tweeters, and possibly your eardrums.

I never said anything about measurments. They make a difference in "actual sound"
Each opamp has got a set of characters that affect performance. I'm not talking about testing with 1khz test tone. But while playing actual music. Slew rate and settling time are for example some of the key factors.
I'm not claiming it would improve the measurments, it may even make it worse depending on the circuit implemented.
But yes, it makes a difference in sound.

The whole point in following this passion is to experience difference in sound, atleast to me

If you are really interested in checking it out, you are whole heartedly welcome to try swapping em. The recent swap I did was from opa1656 to opa1612 in the v3.
It made a difference in sound and I'm not gonna deny that.

 

[antcollinet]

But yes, it makes a difference in sound.

It might. It probably won't. Not eveything that can be measured can be heard. In fact a we can measure a hell of a lot that cannot be heard.

 

[nishamn27]

It might. It probably won't. Not eveything that can be measured can be heard. In fact a we can measure a hell of a lot that cannot be heard.

Exactly !!

 

[antcollinet]

Gonna separate this out, because you might have liked my previous post before I added it:

It made a difference in sound and I'm not gonna deny that.

Without properly controlled and blind listening test you have no idea if it diid or not.