Stereophile Amplification Product of the Year

[rdenney]

As @Blumlein 88 mentioned for $2.00 you can put a 4 ohm resistor in series with the speakers and get 90% of the SET effect. Distortion is over rated in my experience as it is hard to hear with actual music playing below very high levels.

Yup. If the SINAD is no better worse than -40 dB, and the loudest the amp can drive speakers is 75 dBA, then distortion products will be down in ambient noise. But there are many dirt cheap products that can do that. Of course, distortion in this amp at rated power was more like -20 dB--it crossed the 1% threshold at 900 milliwatts. So, distortion products will be at 65 dBA if the peaks are amplified to 85 dBA, and I think even I could hear that.

I recall a speech by J. Gordon Holt where he challenged the assembled attendees at a S'phile anniversary dinner to continually strive for life-like reproduction. He said that we can hear a bit of live music from four blocks away (or something like that) and immediately know that it is live music and not reproduction. Whatever the reason for that, an amp like this is not a response to that challenge, notwithstanding the vacuous claims by the makers.

Rick "amplification has one purpose: to make the music realistically loud with as little damage as possible" Denney

 

[fpitas]

Guys, don't strain yourselves. The original sound of a 300B can only be achieved with the tube itself.

Bob Carver might disagree!

 

[computer-audiophile]

Bob Carver might disagree!

Who is Bob Carver and what does he say?

 

[fpitas]

Who is Bob Carver and what does he say?

Carver became famous for modifying amps to sound like famous, expensive amplifiers of the time.

Carver Challenge | BobCarverCorp.com

www.bobcarvercorp.com

 

[computer-audiophile]

When I started PA I was persuaded by the loudspeaker manufacturer ( horns) that I should pair them with valve amps, Allnic the owner had a reputation in Germany for ‘Silverweld`’( should have asked what kind of reputation) , I had here their 300b set, 300B push-pull and another configuration 300B again something or other they were absolutely rubbish.
Possibly if you restricted your listening to a girl and guitar but otherwise just hopeless, there were reliability/quality control issues too, they lasted six months and that was five and half months too long.
You could literally not leave the room when those amps were ‘on’, awful.
Keith

In another thread, I was beaten up for writing about my listening impressions as an anecdote. Here, too, I read a strong subjectivity. Is that sometimes okay and sometimes not?

 

[computer-audiophile]

Carver became famous for modifying amps to sound like famous, expensive amplifiers of the time.

Carver Challenge | BobCarverCorp.com

www.bobcarvercorp.com

Ok, I can see he's made an effort. (Thanks)

 

[fpitas]

Ok, I can see he's made an effort. (Thanks)

Along the way, he also proved the efficacy of null testing.

 

[fpitas]

Ok, I can see he's made an effort. (Thanks)

Don't worry. The warm glow of your 300Bs is safe. Of course if I used an LED as the diode

 

[computer-audiophile]

Don't worry.

Don't worry, I'm not that easy to throw off track.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Don't worry. The warm glow of your 300Bs is safe. Of course if I used an LED as the diode

Well, I retired my beloved OTL monoblocks (6C33C based). Not because they were bad, or not powerful enough, Oh No.
The main reason was how heavy they were, about 25kg each. Tube amps are high maintenance, and my back-problem didn't like those amps.
So I replaced them with a used, decent 100W solid state.
Sounds as good as the other ones, does not burn 600W at idle, and much cooler in summer.
I also have become environmentally conscious, since electricity prices went up four folds.

 

[fpitas]

Well, I retired my beloved OTL monoblocks (6C33C based). Not because they were bad, or not powerful enough, Oh No.
The main reason was how heavy they were, about 25kg each. Tube amps are high maintenance, and my back-problem didn't like those amps.
So I replaced them with a used, decent 100W solid state.
Sounds as good as the other ones, does not burn 600W at idle, and much cooler in summer.
I also have become environmentally conscious, since electricity prices went up four folds.

A friend and I used to replace the output KT88s and set the bias for another friend's dad. Of course, we had to do quality assurance listening to the KLH Model 9s afterwards. That amp was quite expensive and had no sound of its own. I have no big problem with tubes unless the design is purposely goofed up to achieve some special effects.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Well, I retired my beloved OTL monoblocks (6C33C based). Not because they were bad, or not powerful enough, Oh No.
The main reason was how heavy they were, about 25kg each. Tube amps are high maintenance, and my back-problem didn't like those amps.
So I replaced them with a used, decent 100W solid state.
Sounds as good as the other ones, does not burn 600W at idle, and much cooler in summer.
I also have become environmentally conscious, since electricity prices went up four folds.

Yes, of course, most of the time I listen to digitised music efficiently with Class D amplification. My tube amplifiers only serve to enhance my enjoyment from time to time. After all, I don't have to carry my tube amplifiers around. Our washing machine and fridge, for example, are heavier.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Yes, of course, most of the time I listen to digitised music efficiently with Class D amplification. My tube amplifiers only serve to enhance my enjoyment from time to time. After all, I don't have to carry my tube amplifiers around. Our washing machine and fridge, for example, are heavier.

You missed the high maintenance bit.
My OTLs needed regular servicing and adjustments.
Without an output transformer, a slight issue could pass high voltage DC to my speakers.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Understood!

Well, OTL can be special. Some brands tend to be unstable, I know of such bug reports, but not all. My own SET amp designs have all proven to be very durable. Quite a few of them are in operation out there. I have never heard of any failures. But I would be able to repair them without any problems.

 

[Axo1989]

In another thread, I was beaten up for writing about my listening impressions as an anecdote. Here, too, I read a strong subjectivity. Is that sometimes okay and sometimes not?

I'm sure the old saying it's not what you know, it's who you know can be pressed into service with suitable modification.

 

[rdenney]

Look, pursuing a distorted/colored sound from a vintage architecture can be part of the hobby, and if a person is rich enough, $15K may not reach the threshold of caring about. God bless them.

What I find unacceptable is the claim made by the maker and also by the reviewer that the amp brings something to the music that the music needs. The musicians and producers sure as hell didn't think so, or they would have added it in the mix. The claim is always that Amp X "gets out of the way" and "allows the real music to come through," and that is a demonstrable falsehood. When the reviewer said he'd never heard a better integrated amp, he was telling the world that distortion, (almost unavoidable) clipping, and coloration are part of his quality formula reliably enough that it should offer guidance to readers.

Yeah, riiiight.

Rick "the Big Lie of high-end is that more money equals better sound--not only is more expensive often not better, it's often worse" Denney

 

[droid2000]

fiat bullshit

 

[mhardy6647]

fiat bull----

Fiat as in Stellantis or fiat as in decree?

 

[Hauxon]

Well interesting thread and kind of expected from the "science" crowd. The main gripe here is distortion levels, and true it looks shocking if just looking at the measurements. Distortion measurements are pointless unless taking into account what kind of distortion is being measured. Overdriven tubes give you second-order harmonics that are "musical" and much harder to detect and even if you do it sounds pleasing to the ear. That's why 10% distortion with a tube amp might be acceptable while it would make you ears bleed with a transistor amp. For distortion measurements to have a human meaning it needs to be weighted for human perception.

The Audio Note amp is expensive because it's hand made, low volume and very expensive parts. So you're paying for British labour and very expensive boutique parts. You can easily get a "cheap" 300B SET amp for 10% of the AN price with Chinese labour and cheaper parts ...and it will probably still sound nice. I built one (AN kit 1 clone) where I did choose fairly expensive parts but not ridiculously expensive. It cost me about $2000 in total and sounds very pleasing. It took me however 500 hours building it! hahahaha

So a SET tube amp will offer "pure" amplification but the price is musical (to a point) second-order distortion and low wattage. I use my tube amp in my home office and have a powerful transistor amp in my living room. Horses for courses!

I can always look at the glowing tubes if the sound isn't making me happy!

 

[Galliardist]

I can always look at the glowing tubes if the sound isn't making me happy!

If the sound isn't making you happy... Um, what was your point again?

Oh, before I forget, welcome to ASR.