SONCOZ SGP1 Stereo Amplifier Review

[amix]

anyone coming to your house and looking closely at the VU meters

Why would I want to buy a nice amp for others to look at? I will need to look at it.

 

[Fontie]

 

[Caléo]

Well. Finally, I'm not sure if there are so many defective products over all the sales. Some people complain about it, they should be taken into consideration, but is it a sufficient obstacle...

 

[JackFX]

Well. Finally, I'm not sure if there are so many defective products over all the sales. Some people complain about it, they should be taken into consideration, but is it a sufficient obstacle...

Do you want to be stuck with a broken amp and fighting to get your money back? If not, pick one of the many other amps in this price range

 

[Caléo]

Do you want to be stuck with a broken amp and fighting to get your money back? If not, pick one of the many other amps in this price range

I would love to but there are no other AB amps in the price range with similar specs.

 

[mike70]

I would love to but there are no other AB amps in the price range with similar specs.

Why do you need an AB amp?

 

[Caléo]

Why do you need an AB amp?

Because no D class have the same level of musicality

 

[voodooless]

Because no D class have the same level of musicality

 

[Caléo]

I am coming back from FDA Quloos Qa690, Hypex nCore, Benchmark Ahb2 & La90 D.
Repetitive blind test, the LA90 wins most of the time in my set up. Adi 2 Pro FS R BE, Gustard R26, Grand Cru Esssential & Pylon diamond 28.

LA90 is more natural in the midrange than Ahb2 which is a bit more clinical. Is richer, more sophisticated than Hypex and Qa690 in overall presentation. It has an extremely precise level of detail even at low volume.

Here is an interesting comparison of Ahb2, Mark Levinson 333 and Purifi (which is to me the most evolved form of D class nowadays)

Benchmark AHB2 / Class D Purifi Eigentakt / Mark Levinson 333 - Listening impression & Conclusion

I have these 3 amplifiers and am curious how they compare in my environment. Equipment setup: CD/SACD player: Oppo BD105 Stereophile’s Test CD2 , Track 15 pink noise, , for level matching the three amplifiers Volume set 72dBC on track 15 before playing songs B - F Volume set to 82dBC on track...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[voodooless]

You’ll still get a though…

 

[eddantes]

 

[Caléo]

You’ll still get a though…

I don't try to convince you. I ve tried those amps because I considered them as the top of their class on paper. Best specs, best transparency. At that level I close the eyes, let my friend change the connexions and compare them with my ears on my set up. The process may not seduce you but that's the best I can do to chose my stuff both objectively and subjectively. I ve had them for several monthes so I considered long time running too.

 

[mike70]

Because no D class have the same level of musicality

What? ... there's no musicality in an amplifier ... there's an amplified signal and nothing more.
You need to search for source / preamp EQ you like, but the amplifier only amplify that signal.

 

[Caléo]

What? ... there's no musicality in an amplifier ... there's an amplified signal and nothing more.
You need to search for source / preamp EQ you like, but the amplifier only amplify that signal.

That's what I do. I use an Adi 2 Pro to apply filters on my R2R Gustard R26 dac. And use an S17 Pro as preamp.

The LA90 D in my config has a special ingredient that brings a bit of magic the other D class don't do during blind tests. They work good, the difference isn't massive. I have done lots of tests on headphones and absolutely no D class can compete with the level of A class and here yes, I can tell you that there is something about musicality. For example, my Aune S17 Pro is not as technical as the different D class I've tried, but it makes my Meze Elite sing as no other can do. And yes I've been using EQ for 15 years now and tried a lot of stuff. Even if subjective feelings are not the words to use in ASR, I think that blind tests are a scientific method which are as trustable as numbers on papers. If you don't combine both objective and subjective parts I think you're disconnected of the process : enjoying music is about feelings.

But I agree that I want my amp to be neutral. What years shown me is that even transparent amps have differences. How do you explain that I dissociate an Ahb2 and an LA90 when blindtest listening ? That I can tell you when the Benchmark is playing because I find the mids colder and recessed compared to LA90 so that they both have a dead flat frequency response ?

 

[mike70]

That's what I do. I use an Adi 2 Pro to apply filters on my R2R Gustard R26 dac. And use an S17 Pro as preamp.

The LA90 D in my config has a special ingredient that brings a bit of magic the other D class don't do during blind tests. They work good, the difference isn't massive. I have done lots of tests on headphones and absolutely no D class can compete with the level of A class and here yes, I can tell you that there is something about musicality. For example, my Aune S17 Pro is not as technical as the different D class I've tried, but it makes my Meze Elite sing as no other can do. And yes I've been using EQ for 15 years now and tried a lot of stuff. Even if subjective feelings are not the words to use in ASR, I think that blind tests are a scientific method which are as trustable as numbers on papers. If you don't combine both objective and subjective parts I think you're disconnected of the process : enjoying music is about feelings.

But I agree that I want my amp to be neutral. What years shown me is that even transparent amps have differences. How do you explain that I dissociate an Ahb2 and an LA90 when blindtest listening ? That I can tell you when the Benchmark is playing because I find the mids colder and recessed compared to LA90 so that they both have a dead flat frequency response ?

blind test with the same gain for the amplifiers?

 

[Mnyb]

That's what I do. I use an Adi 2 Pro to apply filters on my R2R Gustard R26 dac. And use an S17 Pro as preamp.

The LA90 D in my config has a special ingredient that brings a bit of magic the other D class don't do during blind tests. They work good, the difference isn't massive. I have done lots of tests on headphones and absolutely no D class can compete with the level of A class and here yes, I can tell you that there is something about musicality. For example, my Aune S17 Pro is not as technical as the different D class I've tried, but it makes my Meze Elite sing as no other can do. And yes I've been using EQ for 15 years now and tried a lot of stuff. Even if subjective feelings are not the words to use in ASR, I think that blind tests are a scientific method which are as trustable as numbers on papers. If you don't combine both objective and subjective parts I think you're disconnected of the process : enjoying music is about feelings.

But I agree that I want my amp to be neutral. What years shown me is that even transparent amps have differences. How do you explain that I dissociate an Ahb2 and an LA90 when blindtest listening ? That I can tell you when the Benchmark is playing because I find the mids colder and recessed compared to LA90 so that they both have a dead flat frequency response ?

Some kind of experimental error we can’t figure from afar ?
The likelihood of you being rigth is very slim compared to that something went wrong ? We can’t possibly solves this in a tread here ?

Good,luck with the amps anyway as none of these is bad choice , provided it can handle the load and levels you want

 

[Caléo]

blind test with the same gain for the amplifiers?

Yes. No gain used on the amp. And for volume leveling, Adi 2 Pro permits you to save 2 settings and switch between both with one remote click.

 

[Caléo]

Some kind of experimental error we can’t figure from afar ?
The likelihood of you being rigth is very slim compared to that something went wrong ? We can’t possibly solves this in a tread here ?

Good,luck with the amps anyway as none of these is bad choice , provided it can handle the load and levels you want

Hard to say. There is always a possibility of error. I don't know where it could be but it wouldn't be scientific if I didn't admit the eventuality. I have done my best, trying to short my psychological biasis. I should need 3 Benchmark to verify there is no problem on my stuff but I didn't have the money to

My Ahb2 stayed 7 monthes at home. LA90 and LA90 D (couldn't compare both together) have been there for one year. Quloos QA690 about 2 years and Hypex about 4 monthes before dying.

I don't speak of Keces S125 that I ve tried with them during my blind tests, which was really far concerning the resolving capacities. Couldn't compete.

I still want to try the Purifi against the LA90 D, which won't stay long as it's not powerful enough. And I m not confident with Topping longevity, even more on discrete electronics which multiply components and so risks.

If you have anything to suggest, I take. Comparing Hypex, Ahb2, La90 and soon Purifi seems to me as the most sensed process but maybe I am missing some interesting stuff in the neutrality line. My needs are just : more than 200 watts per channel in 4 ohms.

 

[lashto]

I am coming back from FDA Quloos Qa690, Hypex nCore, Benchmark Ahb2 & La90 D.
Repetitive blind test, the LA90 wins most of the time in my set up. Adi 2 Pro FS R BE, Gustard R26, Grand Cru Esssential & Pylon diamond 28.

LA90 is more natural in the midrange than Ahb2 which is a bit more clinical. Is richer, more sophisticated than Hypex and Qa690 in overall presentation. It has an extremely precise level of detail even at low volume.

Here is an interesting comparison of Ahb2, Mark Levinson 333 and Purifi (which is to me the most evolved form of D class nowadays)

Benchmark AHB2 / Class D Purifi Eigentakt / Mark Levinson 333 - Listening impression & Conclusion

I have these 3 amplifiers and am curious how they compare in my environment. Equipment setup: CD/SACD player: Oppo BD105 Stereophile’s Test CD2 , Track 15 pink noise, , for level matching the three amplifiers Volume set 72dBC on track 15 before playing songs B - F Volume set to 82dBC on track...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I did not have the chance to listen to those amps in my own setup but heard all at shows/shops/etc. My ear impressions do ~match yours: the various hypex/purifi I heard had a 'hard' treble and seemed a bit 'muted' in terms of dynamics. No complains in the bass area, that was really good.
It does not really help that many EU shops demo a combo of NAD purifi/hypex amps and B&W speakers. Most B&Ws have very hot treble and that combo is 'deadly' for my ears .. cannot even stay in the room more than a few mins.

For better or worse, ASR is not a good place for such ear impressions. You'll be asked to do a proper ABX and if it's anywhere near succesful, people will spend all their energy to find a flaw in your procedure. And you'll get zero useful explanations as to why. Mostly because there is none in the ASR measurements: the output impedance is ~always very low, the FR is ~always flat and the SINAD (number) does not correlate with either audibility or preference. Other measurements (e.g. full HD spectra versus frequency and versus power) may be more useful but those are not available. And still quite controversial.

I agree that controls are needed and would like to see proper ABXes too. OTOH, those ABX discussions are quite annoying for everyone ... haven't seen one that made a single poster happy.

 

[lashto]

...
If you have anything to suggest, I take. Comparing Hypex, Ahb2, La90 and soon Purifi seems to me as the most sensed process but maybe I am missing some interesting stuff in the neutrality line. My needs are just : more than 200 watts per channel in 4 ohms.

This SGP1 does fit your requirements. And if you look at the video 'review' posted above, the guy dropped a hint that SGP2 may be coming soon (with extra bridged mode.)

From the classD stable you can also try Starkrimson and Atmasphere. They do not use the 'standard' hypex/purifi modules but their own customs. May sound different, no idea.

My choice would actually be the classic A/B Neurochrome 686 (360W at 4ohms). The smaller 286 modules were tested here with excellent results and there is a diyaudio thread full of happy builders. If you are not into that, the owner builds/sells full amps from time to time .. just ask him and you may get lucky

P.S. some of the diy guys did ncore comparisons too. FWIW, their impressions do ~match yours & mine