Beyerdynamic T1 Review (V2 headphone)

[sweetchaos]

@bobbooo
Thanks for the excellent analysis and troubleshooting.

Here's the default graph that I posted (which of course, you can see the jagged edges, like you mentioned):
This image is approx 650x1000 resolution on my monitor (and this forum just extends it horizontally, when I upload it here).

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Here's the same image, but stretched to fit my 4k monitor (resolution of 2160x3840):

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As you can see, you'll lose the ability to see frequency and gain, as the text becomes too small.
But the jagged edges are gone now => Great!

So let's see the default sampling frequency (visible by first displaying the chart in 'Peace', then hitting 'Settings'):

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Ahh, yes, 5x by 2px is the default "frequency curve resolution".
Let's change it to 1px by 1px, and let's shrink the image back to a normal size:

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It worked!

I have no idea why 'Peace' left 5x by 2px as the default...it's not like it's using any CPU processing power do so?
I also verified that it's the same on new installs, as I just tested on a VM, with the same results.
Problem solved.
Good catch!

 

[JohnYang1997]

Really depends what your use-case is and how loud you're listening.

If a headphone annoyed me enough that I couldn't listen to it without EQ I'd sell/return it (and have done so many times in the past).

Sure they can all be improved with EQ but I don't buy in to the fact that it's necessary

It's not necessary with the ones I mentioned above.

 

[samwell7]

It's not necessary with the ones I mentioned above.

Yeah sorry I quoted the wrong comment!
I knew your mentioned ones wouldn't need EQ, I've got some similar, potentially worse headphones (AKG K702, Etymotic MC5 and MK5) that I use without EQ.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Yeah sorry I quoted the wrong comment!
I knew your mentioned ones wouldn't need EQ, I've got some similar, potentially worse headphones (AKG K702, Etymotic MC5 and MK5) that I use without EQ.

Mk5 is pretty good.

 

[samwell7]

Mk5 is pretty good.

Yeah they are, I was looking at upgrading to an ER2SE/ER3SE but I don't know if it's worth it - I'll just wait for the MK5 to break

 

[bobbooo]

@bobbooo
Thanks for the excellent analysis and troubleshooting.

Here's the default graph that I posted (which of course, you can see the jagged edges, like you mentioned):
This image is approx 650x1000 resolution on my monitor (and this forum just extends it horizontally, when I upload it here).

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View attachment 111393

Here's the same image, but stretched to fit my 4k monitor (resolution of 2160x3840):

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View attachment 111389

As you can see, you'll lose the ability to see frequency and gain, as the text becomes too small.
But the jagged edges are gone now => Great!

You can also increase the text size next to 'labels font size' in the settings menu

 

[sweetchaos]

You can also increase the text size next to 'labels font size' in the settings menu

Well, I couldnt find a way to change the vertical scale to have more lines, but I did change the horizontal scale.

Take a look at these 6 and let me know which you like more:

Default one:

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[bobbooo]

Well, I couldnt find a way to change the vertical scale to have more lines, but I did change the horizontal scale.

Take a look at these 6 and let me know which you like more:

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View attachment 111409

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View attachment 111410

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View attachment 111411

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View attachment 111412

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View attachment 111413

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View attachment 111414

Definitely the last one Although I'd maybe decrease the font size by 1 point to make it a bit less cluttered (looks like it's on the maximum, so down to 14 I'd say).

 

[sweetchaos]

Definitely the last one Although I'd maybe decrease the font size by 1 point to make it a bit less cluttered (looks like it's on the maximum, so down to 14 I'd say).

You got the size right...here's size 14.

Well, it looks like a glitch in Peace.
I can create this temporary (by tweaking the settings in a certain way...):

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Photo #1:

But when I close the window, and re-open it, it goes back to normal:

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Photo #2:

Recreating the photo #1 would be a pain to do every time I need to do this.
When Peace fixes the bug, it will look like photo #2 (so I won't be able to generate photo #1 anymore).
So you're getting photo #2.

 

[respice finem]

...These measurements are similar like the medical researches, where you can see the actual truth. ...Easy to deceive our senses, while meaurements more or less show the truth. At first, maybe it wont be the same good, because its different, but eventually you will get used to the new sound, thats how the hearing works...

Yes, however, like in medicine, some conditions and limitations apply. What's missing is the anatomy and physiology of the "end user", and that is much more important for hearing with headphones than with loudspeakers. Imagine your ears would be roughly half the size of your listening room - impossible, but this is the case with headphone hearing. What is this doing to the actual frequency response? Yes the measurement fixture has something that looks like an ear - but not yours or mine. Thus, a "one size fits all" EQ cannot be accurate in terms of frequency response, for the individual listener, I'm afraid. As far as adjusting the hearing to "match" the EQ, for people above 50 years of age this has limits, especially for the classical music listeners. It is paradoxically much easier to tell, when a violin sounds off, or a choir, than when a percussion or jazz assembly sounds off.
I'm seeing (for the older but demanding listener) three possible approaches:

1. The lazy way: buy the headphones that best match your hearing and "be done with it".
2. The busy way: Apply EQ, but adjust for your hearing what subjecively sounds off to you.
3. The masochist way : Follow the "one size fits all" preference model and try to adjust your hearing to it.

All three approaches are hardly objective, or accurate, for the individual listener. That would require involving this individual's ear form and hearing condition, maybe by measurement with some kind of in-ear mics?

 

[bobbooo]

You got the size right...here's size 14.

Well, it looks like a glitch in Peace.
I can create this temporary (by tweaking the settings in a certain way...):

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Photo #1:
View attachment 111416

But when I close the window, and re-open it, it goes back to normal:

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Photo #2:
View attachment 111417

Recreating the photo #1 would be a pain to do every time I need to do this.
When Peace fixes the bug, it will look like photo #2 (so I won't be able to generate photo #1 anymore).
So you're getting photo #2.

Size 14 looks good to me. Yeah I noticed that bug too - looks like you have to change the gain scale to 5 dB, close the EQ graph window, reopen it then change it to 1 dB to get Photo #1. Photo #2 is equally as functional, just not so neat looking

 

[sweetchaos]

Size 14 looks good to me. Yeah I noticed that bug too - looks like you have to change the gain scale to 5 dB, close the EQ graph window, reopen it then change it to 1 dB to get Photo #1. Photo #2 is equally as functional, just not so neat looking

Thanks for your help to improve these.
Here's my final 'Peace' settings, in case anyone else wants to re-create the same graphs.

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[magicscreen]

Beyerdynamic DT770 is the best headphone on the world.
How do I know that?
Once I went to a headphone shop and the salesman said that.
There were 50 different headphones but he insisted to buy only the DT770.
For an half of hour he was explaining it was the best headphone.
It was so great headphone.

Btw I did not buy it, it was the biggest mistake in my life (?)

 

[solderdude]

I did not buy it, it was the biggest mistake in my life

Only if you did not compare all 50 and agreed with the salesman.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

1. The lazy way: buy the headphones that best match your hearing and "be done with it".
2. The busy way: Apply EQ, but adjust for your hearing what subjecively sounds off to you.
3. The masochist way : Follow the "one size fits all" preference model and try to adjust your hearing to it.

Agreed.

Best way for me is a combination of 1 and 2:

Buy a high quality can whose signature I already like (a.k.a.: that complements the FR of my ears) and then fine tune it via minor EQ corrections.
Yes, there will always be an element of personal taste when it comes to the choice of transducers. The preference target is not as clear cut as the audibility thresholds in the domain of electronic components.

 

[Merkurio]

shure srh840
etymotic er4s
hifiman ananda

then k612, hd58x

Can't speak for the ER4, but the ER2XR with a slightly personal deviation from the oratory's preset is absolutely godsent, and I'm not trying to say that the DF approach from Etymotic is bad or not competent enough (even though I vastly prefer the Harman target), but every single headphone could benefit from EQ in a way or another.

Unless people run their headphones over multiple different devices that doesn't support EQ, I don't get the repudiation towards it.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Can't speak for the ER4, but the ER2XR with a slightly personal deviation from the oratory's preset is absolutely godsent, and I'm not trying to say that the DF approach from Etymotic is bad or not competent enough (even though I vastly prefer the Harman target), but every single headphone could benefit from EQ in a way or another.

Unless people run their headphones over multiple different devices that doesn't support EQ, I don't get the repudiation towards it.

Er2xr is a bit too far off from my target. Even er2se needs the stock foam to boost some highs.
I will never use presets on the internet especially the ones directly derived from measurement. (not saying you shouldn't use them)
It will take me only a couple of minutes to eq a pair of headphones from horrible to terrific just by ear. It's not that I am still searching for the sound. I know what it should sound like but I accept that different headphones(has to be already good enough) having slight variations.

 

[respice finem]

@respice finem Can you try the 31-band GEQ that I posted?
This was auto-generated to best fit Amir's PEQ profile.

Now I've tried it - for me it sounds practically identical to what I manually set trying to imitate Amir's - meaning I have to "flatten" the two earlier mentioned corrections a bit to have my "right" sound. Not surprising.

 

[respice finem]

...The preference target is not as clear cut as the audibility thresholds in the domain of electronic components.

a) this and b) the ears (anatomically speaking) as a large part of the "headphone listening room" are for me the omitted factor (and presumably major source of error as far as FR goes).

 

[Tigi]

I have always considered T1 as an attempt to compete directly with the HD800 (which were once presented as a new level of audiophile headphone listening). This corresponds to a similar frequency response (as can be seen from comparative measurements published by solderdude), marketing presentation (emphasis on the word "audiophile" on the box or on "innovative" tesla drivers) and a similarly bold price (today the market situation is considerably different, but 12 years ago 1000 USD/EUR was not the usual price of headphones from traditional German makers).

Five years ago I bought the first generation T1 (used) and cannot say that they disappointed me. Without EQ they sound decent (as Amir remarked as well), nothing impressive and world-breaking, but the important thing is that their sound is not downright irritating for me in any genre, and although they seem to be rather on the bright side, I do not hear unpleasant aggressivity in the mids or highs. Compared to the HD650, T1 seem to give the listener a hard-to-describe feeling of lightness, analytical layering or spatiality. This may be considered as unnatural to some people, but I see this alternative look at the recording as quite appealing. I see the T1 as more versatile and balanced headphones than the older and still popular warhorses AKG K701 (I hate their aggressive unnatural presentation of voices and worse recordings) and Grado RS1 (missing bass, for me absolutely unsuitable for some genres). I have never subjectively noticed the problem with the measured distortion of T1 - either because I am not sensitive to these frequencies or I do not listen so loud to make the problem more pronounced. To conclude, from a technical point of view, this is not an exceptional product worth 1000 dolars, but they do their job as very comfortable and decent sounding headphones, which I prefer especially for classical and electronic music.