Beyerdynamic T1 Review (V2 headphone)

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

pretty much in the hd800s level.

 

[Maki]

shure srh840
etymotic er4s
hifiman ananda

then k612, hd58x

Etys lack air and bass, 58X have some treble fluctuations and lack of sub-bass so of the ones you mentioned that I've tried, they both could benefit from EQ filters over 5dB. Less correction than most headphones maybe.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Etys lack air and bass, 58X have some treble fluctuations and lack of sub-bass so of the ones you mentioned that I've tried, they both could benefit from EQ filters over 5dB. Less correction than most headphones maybe.

Etymotics don't lack any bass or air.

58x 612 are in the second tier basically. They do benefit from EQ but you don't need to. You can enjoy as they are without being bothered by their characteristics.

 

[Maki]

Etymotics don't lack any bass or air.

58x 612 are in the second tier basically. They do benefit from EQ but you don't need to. You can enjoy as they are without being bothered by their characteristics.

They definitely lack bass relative to the harman target, and they lack 3-5dB of air in my experience (10K+ measurements are unreliable). How much FR deviation is enough to be bothersome is subjective.

 

[JohnYang1997]

They definitely lack bass relative to the harman target, and they lack 3-5dB of air in my experience (10K+ measurements are unreliable). How much FR deviation is enough to be bothersome is subjective.

The bass on Harman Target is complete BS in my book. The treble on er4s is probably the flatest ever. If any it's a bit elevated around 10k-14k.

 

[Maki]

The bass on Harman Target is complete BS in my book. The treble on er4s is probably the flatest ever. If any it's a bit elevated around 10k-14k.

I disagree with the shape of the shelf but some sort of bass boost is needed especially on IEMs. Either way, I find the Ety 10K+ region recessed relative to most other neutral headphones. The rest of the treble is pretty much perfect, I'll give you that.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I disagree with the shape of the shelf but some sort of bass boost is needed especially on IEMs. Either way, I find the Ety 10K+ region recessed relative to most other neutral headphones. The rest of the treble is pretty much perfect, I'll give you that.

Emmm. Do you hear a peak around 8khz-9khz? If so you are not wearing them deep enough.
IEC 711 or IEC 60318-4 is accurate if insert to the reference plane like er4. Both measurements and sine sweep listening test comparing to flat speakers, certainly shows more pronounced 10-14k region.
As you also mentioned 'other neutral headphones', what are they? There's a chance you are actually looking for a peak in the highs than flat 10k+ region.

 

[Maki]

Emmm. Do you hear a peak around 8khz-9khz? If so you are not wearing them deep enough.
IEC 711 and IEC 60318-4 is accurate if insert to the reference plane like er4. Both measurements and sine sweep listening test comparing to flat speakers, certainly shows more pronounced 10-14k region.
As you also mentioned 'other neutral headphones', what are they? There's a chance you are actually looking for a peak in the highs than flat 10k+ region.

The peak I hear is at 7.5K. Other neutral headphones refers to moondrops, hd600, and room corrected speakers.

 

[JohnYang1997]

The peak I hear is at 7K. Other neutral headphones refers to moondrops, hd600, and room corrected speakers.

Ok you are not remotely wearing them deep enough. You should hear a bit recessed 8khz and a bit boost 10-14khz.
Many of moondrops(can be worse on many other iems of course) has the shallow inserting issue that you have a peak at 6-7khz. The new illumination is certainly improved on this. But including blessing 2, S8, KXXS, Starfield, these are still having this issue. The issue is originally found on Kanas/Kanas pro (which I was somewhat involved in the tuning process), after that they tried hard to manage to solve the issue but not until illumination (solis didn't have the issue either for some reason) have they solved the issue.
Yes er4s should be comparable to hd600 in 10k+ region.
1-2dB bass boost under 500hz is fine on er4s but it doesn't really need that.

 

[Maki]

Ok you are not remotely wearing them deep enough. You should hear a bit recessed 8khz and a bit boost 10-14khz.
Many of moondrops has the shallow inserting issue that you have a peak at 6-7khz. The new illumination is certainly improved on this. But including blessing 2, S8, KXXS, Starfield, these are still having this issue. The issue is originally found on Kanas/Kanas pro (which I was somewhat involved in the tuning process), after that they tried hard to manage to solve the issue but not until illumination (solis didn't have the issue either for some reason) have they solved the issue.
Yes er4s should be comparable to hd600 in 10k+ region.

They won't go in any deeper (already sealed around the largest flange), so I guess I'll just have to live with EQ. Not really much of an issue for me. I did notice the 6K peak on some of the moondrops, so I'll have to check out the illumination. I've been on the fence about it due to that particular issue.

 

[JohnYang1997]

They won't go in any deeper (already sealed around the largest flange), so I guess I'll just have to live with EQ. Not really much of an issue for me. I did notice the 6K peak on some of the moondrops, so I'll have to check out the illumination. I've been on the fence about it due to that particular issue.

As far as I know no other manufacturers(than moondrop and etymotic) have solve the issue(notice the issue even). Only a couple of models that doesn't seem to have a pronounced issue. Etymotic basically solved it by pushing the peak to 13khz where the driver itself has a dip at 13khz so they match each other forming a flat 10khz response. Isine from Audeze doesn't seem to suffer from it either but its acoustic response is already bad enough that only with eq/or the cable can save it. It's a matter of the impedance in the ear canal and its interaction with the iem.
Another IEM that doesn't seem to suffer from this is Sony(Ericson) Mh-1(c)/(a).

 

[Maki]

As far as I know no other manufacturers(than moondrop and etymotic) have solve the issue(notice the issue even). Only a couple of models that doesn't seem to have a pronounced issue. Etymotic basically solved it by pushing the peak to 13khz where the driver itself has a dip at 13khz so they match each other forming a flat 10khz response. Isine from Audeze doesn't seem to suffer from it either but its acoustic response is already bad enough that only with eq/or the cable can save it. It's a matter of the impedance in the ear canal and its interaction with the iem.
Another IEM that doesn't seem to suffer from this is Sony(Ericson) Mh-1(c)/(a).

I think some companies pull back parts of the treble region to address this issue. I don't hear a peak there on my U12t but there's so many other colorations to the FR that it can hardly be called a neutral IEM.

 

[PuX]

Surprising result. But good to know, I guess.

600Ohm is such a huge rarity really, Beyerdynamic still sells a few DT880 600Ohm editions (regular premium, black and chrome).

I own 250Ohm and 600Ohm versions and they do seem different listening with JDS Atom and and Arcam rHead amps. Not just in terms of requiring more power, but also in terms of sound.

 

[MerlinGS]

As far as I know no other manufacturers(than moondrop and etymotic) have solve the issue(notice the issue even).

Are you familiar with the Shure E500PTH? If yes, what issues are you aware of? Thanks

 

[Saffuria]

They won't go in any deeper (already sealed around the largest flange)

Er4? I wear them this way. Small 3 flanges.
First time I was wearing them I was using the large tri flanges and I couldn't insert them properly.
I have to be careful when I take them out if I don't want to leave the tip in my ear (!): I just gently move them circularly without twisting or pulling them and they just pop out.

 

[Merkurio]

Er2xr is a bit too far off from my target. Even er2se needs the stock foam to boost some highs.
I will never use presets on the internet especially the ones directly derived from measurement. (not saying you shouldn't use them)
It will take me only a couple of minutes to eq a pair of headphones from horrible to terrific just by ear. It's not that I am still searching for the sound. I know what it should sound like but I accept that different headphones(has to be already good enough) having slight variations.

My preference also leans toward the ER2SE (I had one, ended up returning it because I couldn't tolerate the tri-flange tips) but for $65 at Amazon, I didn't resist buying them again, even if it was the XR... The great thing about this new pair is that it comes with a much more comfortable bi-flange tip set and an Apple dongle, so it was a steal!

Bass was too much for my taste (sub-bass was ok in my book), so I decided to reduce the mid-bass emphasis and apply a high shelf with a couple of dB to boost the high frequencies past 2 kHz, now they're as perfect as they can get for my personal preferences.

And I agree in EQ by ear due the high variation of measurement methodologies and samples, but in many cases (mostly with manufacturers who have a certain reputation for consistency in their products, such as Etymotic or Sennheiser) I tend to use a preset only as point of reference. For instance, I borrowed an Andromeda from a friend today and the EQ preset from oratory just plain sucks, so I elevated the pinna gain to a level I feel comfortable with, just by ear, and now I'm really enjoy them!

 

[KTN46]

Seems to be more common these days - I've read a fair amount of stories about failing Beyers in the last weeks. But then again, they are common here.
In your picture the worksmanship looks really bad, way worse than the older (and cheaper) Beyers I have taken apart. Looks almost as bad as my HE-35X

me with my 1990 that i've been accidentally dropping and throwing around for about a year

 

[respice finem]

My DT 1990 Pros just died...

Ouch... This (unless these are JPG artifacts on the photo) looks like a seriously bad wiring/soldering job... Did you buy the headphones new? If yes, I would show it to either the dealer or the manufacturer. The possibility of a driver failing with normal cleaning is minimal, but there might be more "sins" along the wiring path / solder joints.

 

[welsh]

Well, the AKG 812/872 get widely panned too - I'd love to see those on the bench. Whether they are objectively better/ worse than these, the HD820 etc is not saying much either way. But they will be better than the Abyss

I find it fascinating that the Harman family can produce some ToTL cans seemingly oblivious to Dr Olive and co's efforts in the other room. View attachment 111330

Well, the AKG 812/872 get widely panned too - I'd love to see those on the bench. Whether they are objectively better/ worse than these, the HD820 etc is not saying much either way. But they will be better than the Abyss

I find it fascinating that the Harman family can produce some ToTL cans seemingly oblivious to Dr Olive and co's efforts in the other room. View attachment 111330

 

[welsh]

There really does seem to be a ‘flagship curse’ in the headphone world...