gaussianmist
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- Apr 4, 2021
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No that isn't logical. Hopefully you are joking, although it is hard to see the humor. .
You just need to broaden your humor horizon, old chap.
No that isn't logical. Hopefully you are joking, although it is hard to see the humor. .
The question is very simple. in which configurations/connections to an outboard amp does the 4700 clip at 1.4 volts and in which configurations does the 4700 drive a clean signal to the 2.3 volts indicated on the graph in the test?
If you read above, the question was about which mode would allow higher preamp voltage without clipping. So that's how it helps.
Thanks Peng....not only for your patient explaination, but for bringing me back to earth about a 75dB signal being "clean" lol I'm not being a snob but when I do finally choose an external amp , I would like it to have a SINAD reasonably close to my 4700 with understanding that the 4700 SINAD of 97 at 2.3 volts is, well lets just say "pretty clean".
I'll read and digest your above response a couple of times later tonight to make sure I'm understanding it correctly and if I'm not, I'll take you up on your gracious offer to try again. Thank you.
I have that Buckeye amp and the Eval 1 VTV and they sound very very similar. Great bang for buck the Buckeye.@peng - I'm using the Monolith Monoprice 6ft Premier Series XLR Male to RCA cable between the March audio P452 and the Denon 4700. It's found here: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4777
The same cable would work on the P252. Alan at March Audio ([email protected]) confirmed it has the correct connections.
The P252 has a 26dB voltage gain which is a bit lower than the Denon Receiver amps but it does offer 150W in 8 Ohms. The 2 channel NC252MP from Buckeye amps is $499 vs March Audio version at $795 plus $90 shipping. The Buckeye amp seems a bargain in comparison.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...amplifier-builder-line-up-announcement.16835/
email ([email protected]) for orders
Current build ETA for new orders: June 28th
Hi all
If the below measurement were repeated for HDMI input are we expecting SINAD = approx. 75 dB ?
In Pure Direct mode
View attachment 127177
Hi to everyone. Reading here for long time, now registered...
My questions regarding the preamp-mode on my X4700:
I am using 2 different front-speaker- setups( 2 different front-speakers on the left and equivalent on the right side) ,
FL/FR-1 is used mostly for films and TV and connected to the internal amp ( assigned as 5.1.4 = 9.1), stored as Config-1 on the X4700.
FL/FR-2 is mostly used for music and connected with ext. amp (assigned as 11.1., trick-solution), stored as Config-2.
Will there be any effect for Config-1 with internal amp for FL/FR because the pre-outs on the X4700 (FL+FR) stay connected to the ext. amp (not powered on)?
Or will there be any effect for config-2 with external amp because the speakers of config-1 are still connected but logically switched off?
Question-2:
For my 2nd front-speaker-setup I'm using an integrated tube amp with a simple volume-poti.
Technical data shows an input sensitivity of 500mV to 2000mV.
Any suggestion how to use and fix the volume knob of the amp to work as a single power-amp?
The volume knob min is at 7 o'clock, max is at 5 o'clock. Right now I'm using the volume at around 3 o'clock.
How to match the external amp with the Denon?
Hi to everyone. Reading here for long time, now registered...
My questions regarding the preamp-mode on my X4700:
I am using 2 different front-speaker- setups( 2 different front-speakers on the left and equivalent on the right side) ,
FL/FR-1 is used mostly for films and TV and connected to the internal amp ( assigned as 5.1.4 = 9.1), stored as Config-1 on the X4700.
FL/FR-2 is mostly used for music and connected with ext. amp (assigned as 11.1., trick-solution), stored as Config-2.
Will there be any effect for Config-1 with internal amp for FL/FR because the pre-outs on the X4700 (FL+FR) stay connected to the ext. amp (not powered on)?
Or will there be any effect for config-2 with external amp because the speakers of config-1 are still connected but logically switched off?
Question-2:
For my 2nd front-speaker-setup I'm using an integrated tube amp with a simple volume-poti.
Technical data shows an input sensitivity of 500mV to 2000mV.
Any suggestion how to use and fix the volume knob of the amp to work as a single power-amp?
The volume knob min is at 7 o'clock, max is at 5 o'clock. Right now I'm using the volume at around 3 o'clock.
How to match the external amp with the Denon?
Question 1. Front A/B Denon amp assign mode is not supported with "pre-amp only" mode on the Denon 4700 receiver. It is supported when only internal amps are engaged and the Front A/B mode is selected in Amp Assign. Based on your question I guess you physically change speaker cables to move from setup1 to setup 2 and change the Preset as well.
As to your question, "Will there be any effect for Config-1 with internal amp for FL/FR because the pre-outs on the X4700 (FL+FR) stay connected to the ext. amp (not powered on)?" - From my experience, the 4700 works fine with the external amp turned off when not required.
Question 2. I prefer to use external power amps with the Denon 4700 that are not "Integrated amps" with volume controls. I don't know the spec or design of the integrated amp you selected but many of them have "Home Theatre" mode that will maximize integration with a receiver. I would check to see if that is an option. If not, then I would call the amp manufacturer and ask what they recommend for this setup.
Config-1: It depends on the design of the input circuit and the input impedance of the ext. amp. If the design is such that when it is not "turned on", the input impedance is near infinite (like an open circuit), the it would have no effects on the pre out of your AVR.
Config-2: Would need to know the detailed specs of the integrated amp to offer any comments of suggestions related to your questions.
The measurements of the pre outs using HDMI and analog input are virtually the same
Hi peng,
So you think there could be some effect to the internal FL+FR-amps while connecting a "turned off" external amp via cinch to the preouts when the input impedance of the ext. amps is not near infinite?
My external amp is a simple Tube-Amp with EL34B-Tubes. I don't know too much about this model but it says input impedance is 100kOhms. Is this in turned on or off mode, or both modes? How can I check? (Input sensitivity is given 500mV to 2000mV)
Hi peng
Measurements of pre outs using HDMI input : SINAD = approx 75 dB
Measurements of amplifier output using analogue inputs: SINAD = approx 86 dB
So for HDMI input , you would expect amplifier SINAD to be closest to 75 dB because of HDMI related circuitry ?
You cannot compare those two measurements because the 75 dB was for preamp output at 2 V whereas the 86 dB was for the power amp output at 5 W.
If Amir had used HDMI output to measure the power amp output, I would expect SINAD to be around 86 dB as well. The much lower 86 dB vs the preamp's 96 to 97 dB is mainly due to the higher THD+N or the power amp, not because of HDMI vs Analog inputs that you may be thinking.
Thanks peng, yes good point, I was comparing apples and oranges.
A better question is (and more relevant to my need/use), would you expect HDMI input to result in same 4 ohm amp measurements below, which were CD analogue input in pure direct.
With same SINAD vs watts curve: