Børresen M1

[raest]

Ok, I believe you. Some of you were trying to explain, as opposed to "justify", how a basic 2 way speaker would have a Bill Of Material and manufacture costs so considerable as to be priced at $100,000.oo... A tall mountain to climb, you would agree, and I am sure many would fail at...
What new grounds does this speaker break? What problem does the use of Zirconium solve? all that for $100,000.oo?
Seriously how can a person explain such extraordinary price for a pair of 4.5 (!!!!) inch driver and a planar mid/tweeter, in a box? Please help me, such will definitely further my knowledge.

you still don't understand the difference between "explain" and "justify". i have no idea what new grounds does it break, nor do you. i don't care enough to research what's the point of the 3d printed zirconium basket, and yet you insist i do that research, and presumably find the measurements to back that up or something.

i don't even know why i'm still replying to you when you put it in your head to crap on a speaker for the mere reason that "it's expensive" while displaying an utter lack of knowledge how the free market works. i will never be able to afford even the boxes for this speaker, but i'd never crap on it just because of the price without measurements to back the hate up. just like i'd never crap on a Patek Tourbillon

 

[FrantzM]

you still don't understand the difference between "explain" and "justify". i have no idea what new grounds does it break, nor do you. i don't care enough to research what's the point of the 3d printed zirconium basket, and yet you insist i do that research, and presumably find the measurements to back that up or something.

i don't even know why i'm still replying to you when you put it in your head to crap on a speaker for the mere reason that "it's expensive" while displaying an utter lack of knowledge how the free market works. i will never be able to afford even the boxes for this speaker, but i'd never crap on it just because of the price without measurements to back the hate up. just like i'd never crap on a Patek Tourbillon

ok

 

[Sorensen]

i did listen to Raidho D 1,1 speakers, also design by Michael Borresen. Way overpriced. My audiovector R 1 Arrete is a much, much better speaker.

 

[poxymoron]

What am I missing here?
Is there anything that could justify it?

Eh, the use of the word Flagship, 'nuff said.........

 

[raest]

oh boy... now if there's one brand that should never be excluded from overpriced snake oil discussions, that's Audiovector with their FREEEDOOM! grounding cables (lol) and Natural Crystal Structure etc etc etc

 

[fpitas]

Ok, I believe you. Some of you were trying to explain, as opposed to "justify", how a basic 2 way speaker would have a Bill Of Material and manufacture costs so considerable as to be priced at $100,000.oo... A tall mountain to climb, you would agree, and I am sure many would fail at...
What new grounds does this speaker break? What problem does the use of Zirconium solve? all that for $100,000.oo?
Seriously how can a person explain such extraordinary price for a pair of 4.5 (!!!!) inch driver and a planar mid/tweeter, in a box? Please help me, such will definitely further my knowledge.

My point about Rolex ,etc is that they make no claim of superior performance. As matter of fact they can't. They wouldn't dare get into the accuracy game, where they would be certain to lose, however irrelevant this is to their customer base. They make jewelry , know it, and people pay for it .. Should we do the same for audio components? Pay the jewelry price, knowing for well the performance is likely to be, pedestrian
Conjecture put aside.. The Borrseen , thing is not the most expensive 2-way. The gold medal likely belongs to that thing:

Hart Audio D&W Aural Pleasure – $5m​

Peace.

Those look like part of the digestive system. I guess you pay more for that (?)

 

[YSC]

I really want someone eventually could get one onto the Klippel or some anechoic chamber. It’s one thing to be at the cost of a Good sports car if it really performs well, and another thing when it measures poorly and with the price

 

[fpitas]

I really want someone eventually could get one onto the Klippel or some anechoic chamber. It’s one thing to be at the cost of a Good sports car if it really performs well, and another thing when it measures poorly and with the price

Might be interesting. But as someone touched on earlier, the target audience doesn't know or care how it measures or sounds. Obviously you can get as near sonic perfection as you want with a lowly Genelec, for example. But the bling factor is non-existent except to audio geeks.

 

[YSC]

Might be interesting. But as someone touched on earlier, the target audience doesn't know or care how it measures or sounds. Obviously you can get as near sonic perfection as you want with a lowly Genelec, for example. But the bling factor is non-existent except to audio geeks.

well yea, but for some really expensive high end speakers do actually hit technical excellence, so with the nice attention to details in exterior design I really hope it performs also, yea a genelec is probably more close to perfect than this will be, but if it performs, it's ok for those uber rich ppl to buy into it just for the status/look/gimmick reason. it won't be my purchase anyway

 

[fpitas]

well yea, but for some really expensive high end speakers do actually hit technical excellence, so with the nice attention to details in exterior design I really hope it performs also, yea a genelec is probably more close to perfect than this will be, but if it performs, it's ok for those uber rich ppl to buy into it just for the status/look/gimmick reason. it won't be my purchase anyway

Beauty is also in the eye of the beholder. I like the Genelec look. I think these look sort of wonky and cheesy. But then, I'm not known for my bling things.

 

[raest]

well yea, but for some really expensive high end speakers do actually hit technical excellence, so with the nice attention to details in exterior design I really hope it performs also, yea a genelec is probably more close to perfect than this will be, but if it performs, it's ok for those uber rich ppl to buy into it just for the status/look/gimmick reason. it won't be my purchase anyway

i really don't know what my wealth and living situation would need to be for me to consider 100k bookshelves

anyway, where do we put the "really expensive high end" cutoff? personally, i'm of the mind that it's "everything above a reasonably priced average consumer car that seats four", which today would be about 20k?

in that price range, which speakers do actually hit "technical excellence"? (genuinely curious) we can speculate a bit based on some manufacturer measurements and Stereophile reviews, but i don't remember any of those ever being on a Klippel, and the inaccurate, low res measurements of sites like hifi-voice, stereo.de, hifinews etc are almost useless (and why i find 99% of the "omg look at the poor measurements of this expensive speaker" comments on this forum at the very least laughable).

 

[fpitas]

i really don't know what my wealth and living situation would need to be for me to consider 100k bookshelves

anyway, where do we put the "really expensive high end" cutoff? personally, i'm of the mind that it's "everything above a reasonably priced average consumer car that seats four", which today would be about 20k?

in that price range, which speakers do actually hit "technical excellence"? (genuinely curious) we can speculate a bit based on some manufacturer measurements and Stereophile reviews, but i don't remember any of those ever being on a Klippel, and the inaccurate, low res measurements of sites like hifi-voice, stereo.de, hifinews etc are almost useless (and why i find 99% of the "omg look at the poor measurements of this expensive speaker" comments on this forum at the very least laughable).

Yeah, that thought occured to me, too. Why big buck bookshelves on stands? Maybe if you're filthy rich but live in a tiny one-room flat over the pickle factory.

 

[YSC]

i really don't know what my wealth and living situation would need to be for me to consider 100k bookshelves

anyway, where do we put the "really expensive high end" cutoff? personally, i'm of the mind that it's "everything above a reasonably priced average consumer car that seats four", which today would be about 20k?

in that price range, which speakers do actually hit "technical excellence"? (genuinely curious) we can speculate a bit based on some manufacturer measurements and Stereophile reviews, but i don't remember any of those ever being on a Klippel, and the inaccurate, low res measurements of sites like hifi-voice, stereo.de, hifinews etc are almost useless (and why i find 99% of the "omg look at the poor measurements of this expensive speaker" comments on this forum at the very least laughable).

well, I could imagine in a office/ smaller private room for meeting really close friends, or late night in the reading room with some background music alike. Could pretty much make it the asthestically great looking design decloration matching the "who knows how much it cost" renovation of the reading room by some famous guy. Kind of when the look and luxury feel fits the design, yet it sounded great. Playing mozard in background while reading could be an enjoyment though.

I myself is just a nobody working a just ok salary living in an apartment, but know some friends who literally buy anything ranging in the 100ks in a heartbeat. for them firstly it need to fit their taste, and it can't be too bargain to make them looks like cheaping out, luxury look is a must, a fancy story told about the design and handcraft etc. is another big plus. Much like a layman with a well paid job might prefer a Nissan GTR which runs the lap just as fast/faster than a Porsche and a Ferrari, but for those uber rich, getting a Nissan is kind of downgrading their class, they opt for the top Porsche, Mclaren, Ferrari etc.

For technical excellence, beside those throw into the few Klippel sources we saw like here and Erin, Stereophile's measurement actually did tell something, their gated measurement above the bass frequencies are usually pretty accurate alas in a lower resolution, and the hump around 100hz is a known thing compared to the anechoic measurement provided here, so I would say the general trend is not too far from the truth.

And personally, I would call it technical excellence in a looser sense, given how forgiving our hearing actually is, anythin within +/- 2-3db in the usable FR range before roll off is considered good enough to call it that anything above the KH120/80x0 series is considered basically perfect in my book. the rest is power handling capability, and then thte deisgn, feel etc.

 

[jsrtheta]

... One of these days, a regulator, will sniff into the HEA (High End Audio) industry, practices and take them to the task. Mark my words. The HEA is pushing the enveloppe, it will break at one point. Many will counter that they are a Luxury industry and can claim quite a few things, except that Rolex has (and won't) ever claim to be more precise than a Casio Quartz, or Luis Vuitton to claim their luggage, to be more durable and robust than a Pelikan's...


Peace

Trust me on this: No "regulator" is ever going to do anything about this in the U.S.

In the U.S., you will never get the federal government to initiate an investigation into whether people with too much money to begin with might be getting ripped off. Never. In a country where people are barely scraping by to make the rent or the mortgage (and we are a wealthy country), the federal government is not going to prioritize limited resources to address the problems of a tiny, and comfortable, group of voters. It would be tough to explain to the public when they read in their local news source that a very select few people are getting ripped off by high end audio manufacturers. Any explanation would be laughable.

Ditto with state Attorneys General: these people have to stand for election every four years (usually). Going after high end audio manufacturers would expose them to near-universal mockery and outrage. And they would be right. People buying Borresens, say, have no constituency that matters come Election Day.

 

[doug s.]

Trust me on this: No "regulator" is ever going to do anything about this in the U.S.

In the U.S., you will never get the federal government to initiate an investigation into whether people with too much money to begin with might be getting ripped off. Never. In a country where people are barely scraping by to make the rent or the mortgage (and we are a wealthy country), the federal government is not going to prioritize limited resources to address the problems of a tiny, and comfortable, group of voters. It would be tough to explain to the public when they read in their local news source that a very select few people are getting ripped off by high end audio manufacturers. Any explanation would be laughable.

Ditto with state Attorneys General: these people have to stand for election every four years (usually). Going after high end audio manufacturers would expose them to near-universal mockery and outrage. And they would be right. People buying Borresens, say, have no constituency that matters come Election Day.

these rich folk who buy a product like this aren't getting ripped off - they wouldn't want it if it weren't absurdly expensive. you think they care how it sounds? (well, sure it has to sound at least decent.) any rich fool can buy an expensive speaker as big as a refrigerator. but this? you have to be really cool to buy a 2-way monitor speaker for this much cash...

doug s.

 

[multichannel_guy]

I wonder who buys these speakers and how many they sell

Rich Asian audiophiles typically...
Americanos and Euros are not as audiophiley or obsessive with sound.

Americano will typically buy a yacht and expensive hookers. Euro will spend it on 5+ star resorts and vacations.

 

[Ron Texas]

Explanation: There's one born every minute.

As for the Rolex Daytona try to buy one. Even if you get on a waiting list you will never get it unless you are a frequent customer of the dealer spending big bucks every year.

 

[Ze Frog]

Anyone thinking these are a slightly prettied up Scansonic MB-1?

They seem remarkably similar, I wonder if this company is the same or same parent company.

 

[multichannel_guy]

Explanation: There's one born every minute.

As for the Rolex Daytona try to buy one. Even if you get on a waiting list you will never get it unless you are a frequent customer of the dealer spending big bucks every year.

I wouldn't say all rich people are stupid. When you have that much cash, who knows what anyone spends their cash on. I heard the Borresen X3 floorstander, which is priced 11k. I don't have 11k, but, it sounded better than any speaker i have ever owned. Their X1 bookshelf speaker priced at 5k may be reachable for me at some point.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Anyone thinking these are a slightly prettied up Scansonic MB-1?

They seem remarkably similar, I wonder if this company is the same or same parent company.

Borresen, Scansonic, Raidho, Ansuz Acoustics and Aavik Acoustics is supposed to all be the same guy. Borresen also was at Nordost as employee for a while.

Raidho was bought by Dantax A/S and liquidated some time after if I recall. Yeah, a bit complicated and I don't know how the current setup of companies are owned and shared.