Big news coming from Sound United in 2023!

[wseroyer]

That's too bad if HDMI devices are limiting chroma and not just bandwidth. This seems equivalent bandwidth wise if we compare apples to apples:

View attachment 229534

Sounds like the consumer gets screwed if they are just doing 4:2:0 for 8K when it looks like the bandwidth should be able to support 4:4:4. Thanks for making me aware of this. I'll have to double check once I upgrade my surround sound processor and TV, or stick with EARC so at least the receiver/processor isn't a weak point.

There's no TV's with 12 bit panels currently, so it doesn't matter that much right now. unfortunately I feel that HDMI 2.1 is already becoming outdated because companies like TCL are coming out with 144hz panels for their TV's and in a few more GPU generation 8K gaming above 60hz will become a reality. I wish they'd just put DisplayPort on TV's and AVR's and consoles, it would be so much better. HDMI really should not even exist, because DisplayPort does it so much better.

 

[DrStranger]

There's no TV's with 12 bit panels currently, so it doesn't matter that much right now. unfortunately I feel that HDMI 2.1 is already becoming outdated because companies like TCL are coming out with 144hz panels for their TV's and in a few more GPU generation 8K gaming above 60hz will become a reality. I wish they'd just put DisplayPort on TV's and AVR's and consoles, it would be so much better. HDMI really should not even exist, because DisplayPort does it so much better.

YES!

 

[Chromatischism]

Keep in mind that as mentioned many times before, with the power amps "off" (actually not off, but disconnected from the pre outs), SINAD or "On" won't make a difference in SINAD unless the pre out voltage is at or higher than about 1.5 Vrms. I think most people don't push the pre out voltage that high. For me, it would be well below 1 V most of the time even when I listen quite loud.

With pre out at 1 V, an amp that has 29 dB gain will output 100 W. At 1.5 V, it would be at 223 W already and that's for 8 ohm load.

If you're right, my 4ohm speakers which are connected to my NCore NC252MP would be taking 100w at only 0.5v. That seems high...

 

[Chromatischism]

There's no TV's with 12 bit panels currently, so it doesn't matter that much right now. unfortunately I feel that HDMI 2.1 is already becoming outdated because companies like TCL are coming out with 144hz panels for their TV's and in a few more GPU generation 8K gaming above 60hz will become a reality. I wish they'd just put DisplayPort on TV's and AVR's and consoles, it would be so much better. HDMI really should not even exist, because DisplayPort does it so much better.

DP carries audio?

 

[Doodski]

YES!

Thunderbolt 4 is coming. It's on my ASUS Z690 motherboard as a header. I'm not a Thunderbolt 4 expert but it seems OK.

 

[Peluvius]

Thunderbolt 4 is coming. It's on my ASUS Z690 motherboard as a header. I'm not a Thunderbolt 4 expert but it seems OK.

We need the EU to force tech companies to standardise as they have with the C Type. I am so sick of the different cable types and adaptors everywhere.

 

[Doodski]

We need the EU to force tech companies to standardise as they have with the C Type. I am so sick of the different cable types and adaptors everywhere.

I'm in USB 2.0 and 3.x for peripherals and hardware encrypted USB data storage. I have not migrated to any C types yet even though I have them on my motherboard at the rear panel.

 

[peng]

If you're right, my 4ohm speakers which are connected to my NCore NC252MP would be taking 100w at only 0.5v. That seems high...

That seems high because you might have forgotten the square/square root relationship, its not linear and you may be assuming your amp has 29 dB gain that I used in my example?

2X the power amp input (that is the pre out voltage) voltage only gets you 1.414X (square root 2) the power. For 1 V input, 29 dB gain, power amp output will be about 100 W, 0.5 V input will only get you about 50 W if the gain is 29 dB but it will actually be lower because the NC252MP likely has a gain of only 26 dB.

You need almost 0.71 V to get 100 W output into 4 ohms, for gain=29 dB. If your NC252MP's gain is closer to 26 dB, then you will need about 1 V to get 100 W output into 4 ohms, or 50 W into 8 ohms.

This site has all the formula you need:

Decibels to Voltage Gain and Loss convert calculation conversion amplification amplifier electronics - sengpielaudio Sengpiel Berlin

Gain and loss - damping and amplification in dB voltage conversioncalculation amplification amplifier electronics - field parameter - Eberhard Sengpiel sengpielaudio

www.sengpielaudio.com

 

[Doodski]

DP carries audio?

Yes, it can.

 

[Sancus]

The only thing I can think of is they're planniing to offer the DLBC upgrade to the X4800H+ but not the X3800H. But who knows, I feel like if they were planning to offer DLBC at all it would've shown up in marketing already. It is a big selling point for anyone paying attention to HT processors/receivers, so leaving out any mention tells me it's probably not coming.

Just Dirac by itself is cool, but not that special. Especially for the $6500 A1H. Dirac WITHOUT bass control makes that one much less competitive.

 

[stevenswall]

Yes, it can.

That's crazy that Display Port can carry audio. I feel like I've been lied to.

Thunderbolt 4 via USB C seems like it should be on everything since it can do anything.

8K video? Go for it.
Data transfer? Sure.
Wired ethernet? Yep.
Audio? Yes.
Power streaming boxes from your TV or AVR? Let's do it.

 

[Peluvius]

That's crazy that Display Port can carry audio. I feel like I've been lied to.

Thunderbolt 4 via USB C seems like it should be on everything since it can do anything.

8K video? Go for it.
Data transfer? Sure.
Wired ethernet? Yep.
Audio? Yes.
Power streaming boxes from your TV or AVR? Let's do it.

Thunderbolt 4 and HDMI. Thunderbolt can't do anything over a 60Hz refresh rate for 8k (30Gbps). HDMI 2.1 can carry 48Gbps so HDR and higher refresh rates at higher resolution.

Manufacturers won't standardise unless they are forced to (by us through our respective governments).

 

[Peluvius]

The only thing I can think of is they're planniing to offer the DLBC upgrade to the X4800H+ but not the X3800H. But who knows, I feel like if they were planning to offer DLBC at all it would've shown up in marketing already. It is a big selling point for anyone paying attention to HT processors/receivers, so leaving out any mention tells me it's probably not coming.

Just Dirac by itself is cool, but not that special. Especially for the $6500 A1H. Dirac WITHOUT bass control makes that one much less competitive.

I think the time alignment on Dirac makes it special (at least against the usual mid-fi built in systems). Hopefully the rumours about incorporating bass control with the full range live product are accurate.

 

[delta76]

The official Denon product pages are now up:

AVR-X4800H - Refurbished - 9.4 Ch. 125W 8K AV Receiver with HEOS® Built-in | Denon - US

The Denon AVR-X4800H is a 9.4 Ch. 125W AV receiver for breathtaking home theater with Dolby Atmos, 8K Ultra HD, DTS:X, and HEOS® Built-in streaming.

www.denon.com

https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/av-receivers/avr-x3800h (you can buy this now, but not the others)

AVR-X2800H - 7.2 Ch. 95W 8K AV Receiver with HEOS® Built-in | Denon - US

The AVR-X2800H 7.2 Ch. 95W 8K AV Receiver with HEOS® Built-in from Denon provides high quality audio for your hi-fi needs. Explore more AV Receivers at Denon - US.

www.denon.com

I admit, I'm rather puzzled with what they've done with the X4800H. It has the same amplifier and preout counts as the 3800H, which is the same as before, but they've trickled Auro3D down to the 3800H now, and also removed the front HDMI port from 4800H, which was a nice convenience of the 4000-series for doing external(REW, etc) measurements.

As far as I can tell you're paying $800 USD more for... +20W better amplification and +1 rear HDMI port??? This makes very little sense to me, neither of these things are worth $800.

Can anyone else spot any other significant difference?

made in japan is not cheap apparently. (I'm not saying it $800 gap makes sense to majority of customers)
big yikes on the new prices.

 

[wseroyer]

DP carries audio?

Yes it does 8 uncompressed channels just like HDMI, but its not a requirement that it has to have it like HDMI and DisplayPort doesn't have ARC. many Laptops with mini DisplayPort don't carry audio, but full size DisplayPort connections like on GPU's carry audio.

 

[wseroyer]

made in japan is not cheap apparently. (I'm not saying it $800 gap makes sense to majority of customers)
big yikes on the new prices.

The price hikes are absurd, the 6700 was priced at $2499 when it came out in 2020.

 

[DrStranger]

suddenly the preowned market seems to be the new electronics store...

 

[Sancus]

As always, pricing is what people will pay. They think people will pay those prices, and tbh, if they end up offering DLBC, I will. If they don't, well, my X4500H still works fine and I'm still waiting for something under $3K with Auro3D, Dirac and DLBC.

 

[Sal1950]

The official Denon product pages are now up:

AVR-X4800H - Refurbished - 9.4 Ch. 125W 8K AV Receiver with HEOS® Built-in | Denon - US

The Denon AVR-X4800H is a 9.4 Ch. 125W AV receiver for breathtaking home theater with Dolby Atmos, 8K Ultra HD, DTS:X, and HEOS® Built-in streaming.

www.denon.com

4800 up $400 now, glad I got my 4700 when I did.

The price hikes are absurd,

I'm sure not pleased about them, but absurd?
Like everyone-thing in this world they have to pay the cost of doing business
which continues to skyrocket every day.
I got 2 bricks of Pecorino Romano cheese here right now.
One I bought at Publix for $11.99lb about 2 months ago.
I bought a second, same exact cheese, store, everything, last week for $15.99lb !!!
US Fuel prices alone have doubled since 1-2021

 

[Chromatischism]

I think the time alignment on Dirac makes it special (at least against the usual mid-fi built in systems). Hopefully the rumours about incorporating bass control with the full range live product are accurate.

What about time alignment? I'm not aware of anything Dirac does with time alignment that is special.