No controls or substantive content whatever. Absolutely useless.agreed...the video I forwarded is not uncontrolled, is it?
No controls or substantive content whatever. Absolutely useless.agreed...the video I forwarded is not uncontrolled, is it?
Between every DAC there will be measurable differences.
Even between 2 DACs of the same type you can find measurable differences.
All measurements here show there are differences in the output signals of DAC's.
So MEASURABLE differences exist.
However, these measured differences are very small. So small in most cases that it won't be audible.
For measured differences to become audible they need to be quite substantial when using music.
The only way to properly test this using ears you need some very rigid controls. The 'listening' evaluations you read everywhere don't have any proper controls or just 1 or 2 and not all of them. This leads to erroneous findings.
The problem is that those NOT using the proper controls but thinking they do or are 'immune' or take it into account are mistaken yet they 'publish' their result as truth. The video above is an example.
There is software that can compare different recordings.
No controls or substantive content whatever. Absolutely useless.
I see your point yet these kind of videos will keep appearing and there will be people who appreciate such claims. I think ASR has an opportunity to educate and improve on such claims and soon these kind of videos will improve to include meaningful data and measurements. Scoffing at such videos as a 1st reaction does nothing to ease the situation and ASR may get a backlash if comments are "not controlled" . I think ASR should take first initiative to be an educator and having a bit less "we are right, you are wrong" attitude. At least this is my humble opinion.
I completely disagree with your characterization of Captain America and Iron Man.I'd like to think this like the Avengers Civil War....I'd say the subjectivists on the Cap side and the objectivists on the Iron Man side. Each thinks that they are right except that they are looking from different perspectives. In the end we are all humans and that we bleed. I will agree with you nothing new but once in awhile people need to be reminded that there's another world out there so that we're not too preoccupied within our opinions. I thought this is a good thread to push forward videos such as this...keep ASR on its toes and better equip to handle any disagreements and confusion dealing with opinions that will creep in from time to time here.
My experience has been the opposite.I see your point yet these kind of videos will keep appearing and there will be people who appreciate such claims. I think ASR has an opportunity to educate and improve on such claims and soon these kind of videos will improve to include meaningful data and measurements. Scoffing at such videos as a 1st reaction does nothing to ease the situation and ASR may get a backlash if comments are "not controlled" . I think ASR should take first initiative to be an educator and having a bit less "we are right, you are wrong" attitude. At least this is my humble opinion.
My experience has been the opposite.
On most audio forums it is assumed that differences are heard, even listening and/ or that measurements are useless since they don't show the differences "I" hear.
We get new members who ave believe this, since it is popular and common.
I can't tell you what you can hear but the only thing coming out of a DAC is a signal which has voltage, frequency and amplitude. There is nothing else. We do have instruments which can measure these parameters to levels of accuracy way beyond the capability of our ears so there can be little doubt that we can measure everything we can hear and more.
There is debate and disagreement over what level of imperfection is audible though.
I have done a level matched sound comparison between DACs where the differences I expected were not there.
OTOH several popular components have been shown to have highish levels of distortion (ie we know the musical waveform is not accurately reproduced @Selcuk Turkoglu) at probably audible levels.
DACs and headphone amps are probably the easiest pieces of kit to make audibly transparent. Headphones, speakers and maybe amplifiers are all orders of magnitude worse so worrying about any audible shortcomings in them whilst listening to them on headphones or speakers makes no sense.
ASR has been educating but a lot of enthusiasts are not keen to learn if it means finding long held beliefs are actually imagined.
Thank you for a clear and concise answer Solderdude.
EDIT: Following on from this, you said in most cases the differences won't be audible, so what about in other cases? Would it be possible that say, for instance, a piano waveform is different to the point of being audible, is this possible?
Amir doesn't attack anybody IME. He is rational and calm in explanations, even when people are being (IMHO) blatantly idiotic.Yes, ASR have to keep at it and lessen the attack if some people still don't listen. It will take time, patience and discipline. In time more people will notice and appreciate what ASR is trying to do. I believe that there are improvements already.
Amir doesn't attack anybody IME. He is rational and calm in explanations, even when people are being (IMHO) blatantly idiotic.
There are forum members whose patience with the same old bollox coming from a string of new members over the years is probably too short but that is not the forum's fault IMO but that of the individual.
Would it be possible that say, for instance, a piano waveform is different to the point of being audible, is this possible?
That is one crappy sofa you have there; inter-seat and intra-seat imbalance, I don't know what to say really!Moving your head three inches will make a greater difference in the waveform presented to your ears by speakers than that presented by by different pieces of similarly competent electronics.
Seven measurements taken across the sofa:
red - center
orange - left and more left
green - right and more right
View attachment 39743
That is one crappy sofa you have there - inter-seat and intra-seat imbalance, I don't know what to say really!
Yes! The QUANTUMS!!!!!Are you thinking there's something being missed in the measurements?
Bybee Quantum Purifiers
These devices work on the quantum mechanical level to eliminate sub-audible noise—i.e., noise unmeasurable by typical test-bench instruments. The results are previously unattainable resolution and beauty in home audio and video.