I am open to all suggestions so thank you this info. I'll be looking I to this amp.
Does it make most sense to get the RCA version? I am not too fair to XLR or how I'd connect it to my avr.
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Denon AVR-X3500H AVR Review
- Thread starter amirm
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I am open to all suggestions so thank you this info. I'll be looking I to this amp.
Does it make most sense to get the RCA version? I am not too fair to XLR or how I'd connect it to my avr.
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RCA just because Denon AVR's don't have XLR outputs.
(1) http://acinfinity.com is your friend, to echo @trl, really helped a Denon AVR-2312Ci and now -3600
(2) Yes offloading current delivery will help. L/R or even all 3 fronts. I'd still get the fan, they are really well designed, auto-speed based on temperature.
As a loudspeaker engineer let me say power handling specs are 94.78% useless. Put as huge an amp as you like. THE RULE: All will be fine if IF IF you TURN IT DOWN if things distort. (If you keep cranking when things distort, you'll break speakers and/or amp. The speaker rating and the amp power don't matter if you follow these rules-in fact it is better to have more amp power and avoid clipping since some amps misbehave very badly when they clip). As for the impedance, speakers are NOT resistors, the best thing is to get amps rated into 4 or even 2 ohms if possible. And follow THE RULE!
Sure, but you are stating the obvious, to me anyway.
Good post though.., like the 94.78% part, I thought it was more like 95.12%. Too bad loudspeaker engineers probably couldn't overrule those marketing "engineers" most of the time..Hello everyone,
I ask for your help in choosing the most correct solution.
I have a denon 3500h in 5.2.1 configuration, the front speakers are klipsh rp8000f and the central is always a klipsh RP-504C all rated 150w continuos and 600 peak.
In addition to watching movies from the most common streaming services (netflix, Amazon prime Video, Disney+..) in these pandemic and smart-working times, I listen to a lot of music from qobuz via roon connected to the avr via NUC8 via HDMI.
I was thinking of adding an external amplifier Emotiva XP3-Gen3 to give more boost to the speakers and to have better power and maybe better sound in stereo music. (using pre-amp of avr) I was sure of this until I read Amirm's review.
Now I am in doubt whether to take a denon AVC-4700h instead of the external amplifier for the same price.
What do you recommend?
One last question The Emotiva XP3-Gen3 has 300w rms could this more power be a problem than what the speakers are given? What could I do to make sure I don't damage them?
Thank you very much for the time you want to dedicate.
Sorry for the English but I'm not a native speaker.
I ask for your help in choosing the most correct solution.
I have a denon 3500h in 5.2.1 configuration, the front speakers are klipsh rp8000f and the central is always a klipsh RP-504C all rated 150w continuos and 600 peak.
In addition to watching movies from the most common streaming services (netflix, Amazon prime Video, Disney+..) in these pandemic and smart-working times, I listen to a lot of music from qobuz via roon connected to the avr via NUC8 via HDMI.
I was thinking of adding an external amplifier Emotiva XP3-Gen3 to give more boost to the speakers and to have better power and maybe better sound in stereo music. (using pre-amp of avr) I was sure of this until I read Amirm's review.
Now I am in doubt whether to take a denon AVC-4700h instead of the external amplifier for the same price.
What do you recommend?
One last question The Emotiva XP3-Gen3 has 300w rms could this more power be a problem than what the speakers are given? What could I do to make sure I don't damage them?
Thank you very much for the time you want to dedicate.
Sorry for the English but I'm not a native speaker.
Your speakers are very sensitive and would take very little power to reach very loud levels. I wouldn’t think you would “need” an external amp at all for the sake of power. You could try having better power with something that provided power with less noise/distortion. Whether it is something you would notice, I don’t know.
But I don’t think more power for your speakers will lead to better sound. According to the review on Audioholics the speaker sensitivity rating is more 92/93 but still doesn’t make much to drive it to very loud levels.
Thanks for the reply. So what do you advise me? to buy the new denon 4700 or to look for a not powerful but clean external amplifier? Could you address me?
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Bear123
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If you don't need more power, adding an external amp is not likely to change the sound at all. Likewise, switching to the X4700 is not likely to change the sound either. If you just want to buy something, which can be fun, I'd look at a Monoprice Monolith 3/5/7 channel amp. They run $12-$1700 or so depending on how many channels you get. It achieves full rated power with less than 1.5 volts, which means even your X3500 will be sending a very clean -95dB/.0017% signal to the amp, vs the -83 dB/.007% from your AVR's internal amps. So you will have more power just in case, and a cleaner signal. In neither case will you be able to hear the inaudible noise/distortion in the signal.
Monolith amp review at Audioholics
If searching for improved sound quality, what subs are you using, and have you measured your response?
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Agree with others, your RP-8000F's are not difficult to drive at all.
If you are still in doubt about the need for pairing the AVR with a power amp, then I would say use an online calculator to find out how much power you really need first.
Peak SPL Calculator (homestead.com) (for sensitivity, enter 90 dB just to be super conservative if you like..)
You will most likely find that the AVR-X3500H can do the job easily unless you sit further than 10-12 ft and listen to reference level spl. I think you would be better to delay your upgrade plan until you really have good reasons to.
If you are still in doubt about the need for pairing the AVR with a power amp, then I would say use an online calculator to find out how much power you really need first.
Peak SPL Calculator (homestead.com) (for sensitivity, enter 90 dB just to be super conservative if you like..)
You will most likely find that the AVR-X3500H can do the job easily unless you sit further than 10-12 ft and listen to reference level spl. I think you would be better to delay your upgrade plan until you really have good reasons to.
@Bear123 makes a good suggestion on an amp that measures better that the internal amps of your Denon.
If looking to improve sound quality
-Have 2 subwoofers if you don’t already. Positioned well, this can really help with both evening out low end frequency response and add headroom
-Buy the Audyssey app if you haven’t already. It can transform Audyssey into something really effective.
-Purchase a measurement mic such as the UMIK-1 if you haven’t already so you can measure your current system and make changes with the Audyssey app as needed
If you are wanting a new piece of gear, the x3700 or x4700 are both great.
edit: I am the last one that should be giving advice on not upgrading your receiver or adding an external amp... I have the x8500 and currently use an NAD M27 external amp with it. Like most that upgrade to an external amp, I think it sounds better. Could I pass a double blind test? Probably not. But I do enjoy the fact knowing that noise/distortion isn’t going to be an issue from the receiver or amp at whatever volume I listen at.
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Hi, yes i have 3 subs 2 svs pb3000 and 1 pb 2000 i'm using a minidsp x4 hd to equalize the response (REW + umik-1, i made an house curve of +7/8db in low frequencies, the response is as it is no mean fft was made). I think it's a good response.
the problem is that monoprice amplifiers in italy are not even found on amazon. Instead, you can find the Emotiva (https://emotiva-italia.com/). So I was thinking about this:
https://emotiva-italia.com/amplificatori-finali-stereofonici/emotiva-basx-a300.html
or this:
https://emotiva-italia.com/amplificatori-finali-multicanale/emotiva-basx-a500.html
Perhaps the first is better for music. My goal is to have better clean amplification in two channel with lower distorsion... and parhaps it's useful for films too.
Thanks for your time.
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Hi
I sit at about 7-8 feet What should I find? 75? correct? But this is the reference for the films .. for muisc is it the same?
Thanks in advance
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That's good news for you. Based on sitting 8 feet from your Klipsch RP-8000F, you should have to trouble listening to "reference level", that is as loud as you would hear in a good movie cinema with just 100 WPC, the AVR-X3500H can output more than that for sure. The number, 105 dB sound pressure level you see if calculated very conservatively by entering only 90 dB for sensitivity (the RP-800F can actually do better than that..).
If you still want to add an external amp, you should get one rated for at least 200 WPC into 8 Ohms, because double the power will only get you 3 dB louder. Being in Europe, you probably can get the Hypex based amplifiers at prices better than or lower than those in North America.
Example: You can get the 4 channel version for 1.075,00 € or 2 channel for 750,00 €
Multichannel Amplifiers | Hypex Based Class D Digital Handbuilt Amplifiers Only Using Highest Quality Material (apollonaudio.com)
The NAD M27 is also based on Hypex amp modules so the Apollon amps i linked above should have very similar audio specifications.
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Thanks so much for your help, but apollon amps are not found either. the only amps that I can easily find are EmotivaX.
https://emotiva-italia.com/amplificatori-finali-multicanale/emotiva-basx-a500.html
Unfortunately I find no reviews here for this amp. But you are convincing me with good reason that perhaps all this need is not there and that on a musical level the expense would not justify the increase in performance. I am very grateful to you for making me think !!!
The doubt came to me after reading the review of the Denon X3500H and the fact that it was an AVR Not recommended.
I rarely listen to movies and music at more than -20db reference -15 only for old movies that have a low volume in the recording. My illusion was perhaps also due to the fact that it is commonly said that dedicated amplifiers have a cleaner and more controlled power than AVR's, and for stereo music there is no comparison, I wanted to understand if I could have both a good stereo music than a good AVR and that's why I was asking you for advice! But maybe in the end to get good stereo music I should get a dedicated stereo but being the speakers the same I see it very complicated.
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Bear123
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As long as you have enough power, and it seems you do, I really don't think an expensive "audiophile" amp with lower measured distortion will change the sound. Your AVR already has .007% THD+noise. That's really low and, IMO will sound no different than lets say a Nord Acoustics NC500 that is .001% distortion. Yes, people imagine a difference all the time. And they are quite sure they hear it when they know which amp is playing. I know people here go rather nuts chasing SINAD even lower than the inaudible SINAD they already have, and the paid subjective review sites reinforce the gear merry go round, the false claims that separate stereo components are higher fidelity than integrated's and AVR's, etc. It's really hard to break that mindset that has been cultured by the industry for decades. Fortunately, we have measurements becoming more commonly available that shows even your two year old mid tier Denon is putting up objective performance data that is better than most expensive audiophile gear, as good as some of the best and most expensive processors, etc.Thanks so much for your help, but apollon amps are not found either. the only amps that I can easily find are EmotivaX.
https://emotiva-italia.com/amplificatori-finali-multicanale/emotiva-basx-a500.html
Unfortunately I find no reviews here for this amp. But you are convincing me with good reason that perhaps all this need is not there and that on a musical level the expense would not justify the increase in performance. I am very grateful to you for making me think !!!
The doubt came to me after reading the review of the Denon X3500H and the fact that it was an AVR Not recommended.
I rarely listen to movies and music at more than -20db reference -15 only for old movies that have a low volume in the recording. My illusion was perhaps also due to the fact that it is commonly said that dedicated amplifiers have a cleaner and more controlled power than AVR's, and for stereo music there is no comparison, I wanted to understand if I could have both a good stereo music than a good AVR and that's why I was asking you for advice! But maybe in the end to get good stereo music I should get a dedicated stereo but being the speakers the same I see it very complicated.
7/1,000th's of a percent distortion. Audiophile amps proudly make claims of .01% distortion in their marketing material....your Denon is better than that. What you have is audibly transparent. Can you hear the distortion your speakers make? It's probably very easily 0.5% even at moderate volumes. If you can't hear that, why would you be able to hear the .007% in the signal generated by your AVR.
If you really just want to buy a nice amp, by all means, its perfectly ok to buy high quality equipment, or whatever you want even if it is lower fidelity. It just doesn't make sense to do so believing that it will magically sound better. However, the beliefs that have been pushed by the audiophile and subjective review sites have advocated this for so long, that you probably will actually perceive better sound quality when you buy an expensive amp. As long as your eyes are open.
If you want to add a well engineered amp to your system just for the fun of it, or pride of ownership or something, do you have access to products made in the UK? If so:
Nord NC500 3 channel amp
Nord NC500 amplifier review
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Bear123
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Remember, the sky was falling concerning the Denon X3500 because when voltage from the pre-outs gets up to 2 volts, SINAD is .02%. This is almost as good as the figure most audiophile companies advertise for their dedicated 2 channel or mono amps. Even though this is worse than the Denon's internal amps, and would only happen at listening levels far louder than you would ever listen, so doesn't apply in real life, I have serious doubts people would be able to "hear" .02% distortion when listening to music or movies above reference level. Remember, below 1.5 volts, the signal from your pre-outs is -95 dB or .001%.
By the time 99% of speakers made are playing at a loud enough level to need 2 volts from the Denon's pre-outs, distortion from the speakers will probably be in the double digits, since you will be dumping 100's of watts into them. If your speakers are making 10% distortion, I don't think 10.007%(distortion using your AVR) will sound any different than 10.001%(distortion using Nord's Hypex NC500 amp).
If you really just want to buy a nice amp, by all means, its perfectly ok to buy high quality equipment, or whatever you want even if it is lower fidelity. It just doesn't make sense to do so believing that it will magically sound better. However, the beliefs that have been pushed by the audiophile and subjective review sites have advocated this for so long, that you probably will actually perceive better sound quality when you buy an expensive amp. As long as your eyes are open.
No you already convinced me 2/3 posts above that there was no need for any extra amp. Thank you so much that's why I posted here before buying, because I felt that I was wrong but I needed more aware opinions than mine especially in interpreting the results of the review that with your examples you made me understand perfectly. Thanks sincerely to everyone. Maybe in a few years I will change AVR! but first I will post here !!! heheh.
The fact is also that you try to buy the best for the budget you propose, and to do this you search through reviews and opinions until you decide. Then reading that you were wrong is not rewarding. Then to fix it maybe make other mistakes and spend more money .... hehehehe. Only to find that in the end there was nothing to correct
P.S.
With brexit it is very complicated to buy in England and taxes increase and obviously they are not found in Italy !!! haha it's not meant to be! Better that way. Now I am relieved thanks to you.
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