Dirac Live Bass Management?

[KarVi71]

Yes, thats something worth hoping (and waiting for).

On a related note, there was a Dirac Live 2.5.2 released (release date says the 8. of April).

It doesn't mention Bass Control, but on my system it did something to the bass nonetheless.

I find my bass more punchy, more full and balanced. I have had to reduce my bass boost by 3dB, else it simply was too much. Actually i now find the default Dirac curve to be good, where before it sounded thin and without energy in the bass region.

The changelogs / release logs does say something about improved filter calculation in regards to both levels, timings, frequency limits of speakers, and phase, so perhaps those changes are what made the difference?

The new version recalculated my filters when launched the first time. I don't remember earlier versions doing this automatically, so they must have changed something major enough to warrant the recalculations.

 

[xhattan]

Yes, thats something worth hoping (and waiting for).

On a related note, there was a Dirac Live 2.5.2 released (release date says the 8. of April).

It doesn't mention Bass Control, but on my system it did something to the bass nonetheless.

I find my bass more punchy, more full and balanced. I have had to reduce my bass boost by 3dB, else it simply was too much. Actually i now find the default Dirac curve to be good, where before it sounded thin and without energy in the bass region.

The changelogs / release logs does say something about improved filter calculation in regards to both levels, timings, frequency limits of speakers, and phase, so perhaps those changes are what made the difference?

The new version recalculated my filters when launched the first time. I don't remember earlier versions doing this automatically, so they must have changed something major enough to warrant the recalculations.

I got the same results yesterday on my T758v3 (not well regarded around here, but the best sounding AVR under 2K hands down). Bass was boosted to +4, was really punchy and controlled, but muddled the mids a bit. Had to use Markus´s app to reduce it 2 dB and that fixed it leaving a well surrounded, impactful sound with incredible image and dynamics. I will perform another measurement this weekend and see if the bass is still boosted that much. But so far, so good.

 

[KarVi71]

It seems that Dirac Bass Control was released some days ago:

https://www.ravepubs.com/dirac-live-bass-control/

And the first users are reporting good results.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/dirac-live-with-bass-control.2284463/page-3#post-27969211

Now I'm really looking forward to when this will be available on the promised NAD products ...

 

[tecnogadget]

¡¡¡ I'M SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS !!!

 

[beatelund]

¡¡¡ I'M SO EXCITED ABOUT THIS !!!

Me too!!

This made me even more excited

"Correspondingly, it is a planned Bass Control feature that the user will
have the ability to include their full-range speakers into the Bass Control opti-
mization. From the optimization design perspective, a full-range speaker will be
seen as both a small-range speaker and a sub-woofer"

 

[QMuse]

Me too!!

This made me even more excited

"Correspondingly, it is a planned Bass Control feature that the user will
have the ability to include their full-range speakers into the Bass Control opti-
mization. From the optimization design perspective, a full-range speaker will be
seen as both a small-range speaker and a sub-woofer"

If that means that full-range speakers could be overlapped with subs and EQ-ed together instead of sily crossed that is indeed a very interesting feature. Let's wait and see..

 

[Kal Rubinson]

This made me even more excited
"Correspondingly, it is a planned Bass Control feature that the user will
have the ability to include their full-range speakers into the Bass Control opti-
mization. From the optimization design perspective, a full-range speaker will be
seen as both a small-range speaker and a sub-woofer"

It is that planned feature I have been waiting for with great anticipation.

 

[MickeyBoy]

Does anyone know if the new Bass Control feature will be available to owners of the NAD T758? Since the T758 has only a single sub output, there is that limitation. I am using a Y adapter to split the signal to two Rythmik L12s (equidistant from my listening position.) With the GoldenEar Tritons I would have four subs if Bass Control is enabled. Does it depend on what NAD chooses to do?

 

[KarVi71]

Does anyone know if the new Bass Control feature will be available to owners of the NAD T758? Since the T758 has only a single sub output, there is that limitation. I am using a Y adapter to split the signal to two Rythmik L12s (equidistant from my listening position.) With the GoldenEar Tritons I would have four subs if Bass Control is enabled. Does it depend on what NAD chooses to do?

On Diracs Facebook page someone asked that exact question.

The reply from Dirac was that they don't think the T758 has enough processing power.

But ultimately only NAD has the answer.

I couldn't figure out to link to the question, so I took a screenshot:

 

[EB1000]

It seems that Dirac Bass Control was released some days ago:

https://www.ravepubs.com/dirac-live-bass-control/

And the first users are reporting good results.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/dirac-live-with-bass-control.2284463/page-3#post-27969211

Now I'm really looking forward to when this will be available on the promised NAD products ...

I doubt the new bass control will do any good to the useless subwoofer outputs of the terrible C658 preamp, as the sub out levels are almost dead (-20db lower compared to main speakers pre outs!). If the new bass control adds a subwoofer level adjustment to the C658, then it will be worth the 450$ price tag, otherwise, I'll continue using the secondary pre outs for the subwoofers...

Anyway, bass control is still not available to the general public. Dirac website says cooking in April, so I'm gusting it will be available somewhere in May...

 

[bluefuzz]

I doubt the new bass control will do any good to the useless subwoofer outputs of the terrible C658 preamp

Yes we understand you apparently have a dud unit, but this isn't general problem. Subwoofer output is quite loud enough on my C658. I calibrate with Dirac with my subwoofer amp gain centred on 0dB (It has a Hypex FA251 amp). That gives me +/- 18dB adjustment on the subwoofer. I often reduce the sub output from there on some bass heavy recordings and crashbang movies. There is plenty of signal from the subwoofer output of the C658.

 

[EB1000]

Yes we understand you apparently have a dud unit, but this isn't general problem. Subwoofer output is quite loud enough on my C658. I calibrate with Dirac with my subwoofer amp gain centred on 0dB (It has a Hypex FA251 amp). That gives me +/- 18dB adjustment on the subwoofer. I often reduce the sub output from there on some bass heavy recordings and crashbang movies. There is plenty of signal from the subwoofer output of the C658.

I'm currently on my THIRD C658 unit! All three of them (bran new) have the same extremely low subwoofer outputs!

My subwoofers are SVS SB-2000 and they are connected to both the C658 and Denon X4400H. The subwoofers levels, when used with the Denon, are very loud, while when used with the C658 they are nearly dead, even post-Dirac live calibration).

This is not a dud unit, this is a major design flaw by NAD.

I have tested the subwoofer output signals and compared them to the RCA stereo pre-outs using a scope while playing a 50Hz test signal with subwoofers on crossed at 250Hz and then with subwoofers off measuring the main stereo outputs (RCA). The voltage difference was HUGE! 3.4V amplitude via the main pre-outs vs only 0.3V via the dedicated subwoofer outputs, when both subs are one (0.5V when only one is enabled).

If you're only using the C658 with the subwoofer (I assume a single sub), then you have no reference to compare to. Your subwoofer must be very sensitive and loud.

 

[JR4321]

It is that planned feature I have been waiting for with great anticipation.

Question about Dirac bass control related to REL subs. Rel has an unusual "Hi-Level input" feature where you connect via the same posts as your main speakers, rather than using a Sub-out from a Preamp.

So the bass is already "managed" by Dirac in this case, isn't it? The only difference I see with this new Dirac Bass Control in this case seems to be sending a unique signal to the SUB vs the main speaker. But since you can set the cover of the sub independently, it is already independently controlled in this way, mostly.

 

[jhaider]

It is that planned feature I have been waiting for with great anticipation.

Does that mean they're folding the "Unison" project into "Dirac Bass Control?"

 

[QMuse]

Question about Dirac bass control related to REL subs. Rel has an unusual "Hi-Level input" feature where you connect via the same posts as your main speakers, rather than using a Sub-out from a Preamp.

In that scenario sub becomes indistinguishable part of your main speakers. Dirac doesn't know it's there but would manage it when EQ-ing your mains.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Does anyone know if the new Bass Control feature will be available to owners of the NAD T758? Since the T758 has only a single sub output, there is that limitation.

Yes. it is a limitation because DL has no way to individually control each speaker/sub without a separate line to each speaker/sub.

Question about Dirac bass control related to REL subs. Rel has an unusual "Hi-Level input" feature where you connect via the same posts as your main speakers, rather than using a Sub-out from a Preamp.
So the bass is already "managed" by Dirac in this case, isn't it?

It is not. It is EQ-ed as part of the speaker to which it is connected and cannot be independently "managed."

Does that mean they're folding the "Unison" project into "Dirac Bass Control?"

Looks like at least some of it will be.

 

[JR4321]

In that scenario sub becomes indistinguishable part of your main speakers. Dirac doesn't know it's there but would manage it when EQ-ing your mains.

Yes, I agree. So I don't think their new bass mgmt would do anything new in this situation. Agree?

I do wonder about phase matching, though? The current software does not test each speaker independently (L-R), so it doesn't adjust phase... I think. I wonder if the new bass mgmt will adjust for phase?

 

[QMuse]

Yes, I agree. So I don't think their new bass mgmt would do anything new in this situation. Agree?

I do wonder about phase matching, though? The current software does not test each speaker independently (L-R), so it doesn't adjust phase... I think. I wonder if the new bass mgmt will adjust for phase?

I expect it should adjust phase, but I really wouldn't recommend this way of connecting the sub.

Btw, if you have 2 subs connected that way with your mains you don't need Dirac Bass management - any EQ would do.

 

[JR4321]

I expect it should adjust phase, but I really wouldn't recommend this way of connecting the sub.

Why not?

 

[QMuse]

Why not?

Because it doesn't allow to set high pass filter for your mains nor proper phase integration. You are basically attaching sub to your mains with crossover only on sub side.