Genelec 8341A SAM™ Studio Monitor Review

[bunnyfuzz]

I used to use a Weiss INT converter, AES with attenuator with my 8260’s, I use an RME ADI unit now, or a vortexbox streamer/computer with AES / attenuator, there aren’t too many options.
Keith

Genelec should address this costly and confusing option. The enthusiast/home listener can see that there's a direct digital input that would negate the requirement for multiple conversions, as per suggestion mentioned earlier, but no easy and reasonably priced path to achieve this.

 

[hege]

Genelec should address this costly and confusing option. The enthusiast/home listener can see that there's a direct digital input that would negate the requirement for multiple conversions, as per suggestion mentioned earlier, but no easy and reasonably priced path to achieve this.

There's nothing to address. For PC, even a 100€ USB-SPDIF converter with RCA-XLR cable will do. Volume control can be done with GLM (with optional volume controller if needed) or from OS / Streamer.

 

[bunnyfuzz]

There's nothing to address. For PC, even a 100€ USB-SPDIF converter with RCA-XLR cable will do. Volume control can be done with GLM (with optional volume controller if needed) or from OS / Streamer.

Here's the manual: https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn...00eecee42787094628d/8341_operating_manual.pdf

See if you can find where the procedure is addressed by Genelec. Direct digital hookup with user controllable volume.

 

[hege]

Here's the manual: https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn...00eecee42787094628d/8341_operating_manual.pdf

See if you can find where the procedure is addressed by Genelec. Direct digital hookup with user controllable volume.

It's not a consumer model. There's descriptions of AES connectivity etc in "Audio inputs" chapter for example, but some assumptions are surely made about user knowing stuff already.

Of course it wouldn't hurt making many more example diagrams.

edit: One can also read the GLM manual, there are more examples: https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn...1817293ea83/GLM_3_system_operating_manual.pdf

 

[bunnyfuzz]

Direct digital hookup with user controllable volume. GENELEC should address this omission for anyone that wants to use this speaker/system. Apple made a excellent £8 dongle when they engineered the headphone jack out of their iPhone. Genelec engineered active speakers that already have DAC's built in and are computer contolled . Genelec should make an affordable USB to AES connector that goes to the first speaker in the GLM chain. Daisy chain the rest of the speakers. Plug in the Genelec volume controller and you're off. Guaranteed to work and you know the end cost. And no extra conversions.

Alas, GLM doesn't even work in OS Catalina.

 

[pierre]

So you are using an external DAC and room correction at the same time, thus feeding an analog signal to these? Are you aware that the 8341 will do an AD conversion to your signal and then another DA conversion after the room correction dsp? This is not a wise way to use these. You should feed digital signal to the 8341 and forget external dacs.

I have an existential crisis with this. I know it makes no difference but i still would like to feed them with AES for the pleasure to remove an extra DA/AD. The RME box i need cost 3k and. for now, i will stay with my extra AD/DA. Most of the music goes through RX de-clip then Penteo for upmixing or my own upmixer thus it also already a modified signal.

 

[bunnyfuzz]

I have an existential crisis with this. I know it makes no difference but i still would like to feed them with AES for the pleasure to remove an extra DA/AD. The RME box i need cost 3k and. for now, i will stay with my extra AD/DA. Most of the music goes through RX de-clip then Penteo for upmixing or my own upmixer thus it also already a modified signal.

Genelec GLM Set, £300 https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_glm_set.htm

Genelec Volume Controller, £70 https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_9310am.htm

Genelec USB to AES ??????????????? Where's Genelec's simple/affordable solution?

 

[Rincewind]

Why would Genelec bother to make a USB-AES3 device when there are hundreds on the market already? They are called soundcards. Some are quite affordable too.

 

[aarons915]

Honestly that sounds like a bit of wishful thinking. You don't gain 12 db by adding another speaker and placing them in a room. Even if you stack one on top of the other and the room is a closet. Most of the "room gain" is in the low frequencies, even for a small room (this is for a room with maximum dimension of 15'):

Most of what we hear in a room is from reflections, not the direct sound, so when you add reflections and multiple speakers playing, you will get quite a bit more SPL than the 90db in an anechoic chamber. You also lose some due to your listening distance so maybe 12 db is a bit optimistic but I'm still not convinced that smaller speakers can't achieve loud enough listening levels in bass managed systems for most users.

Of course there are some who do listen at levels that cause permanent hearing damage, that's why I said it would be a good idea to have some kind of metric to gauge loudness between different speakers, I think max SPL at 10% distortion at 100Hz would be a fair way of comparing different speakers. That way, you can make sure whatever speaker you buy can hit 100-110db cleanly if that's what you need.

 

[bunnyfuzz]

Why would Genelec bother to make a USB-AES3 device when there are hundreds on the market already? They are called soundcards. Some are quite affordable too.

Same reason they made a Volume Controller

 

[bunnyfuzz]

Why would Genelec bother to make a USB-AES3 device when there are hundreds on the market already? They are called soundcards. Some are quite affordable too.

Can you give a couple webpage examples of affordable examples that would work with my MacBook Pro (USB C) and terminate in a AES output. Honestly, I've never seen one.

 

[Rincewind]

A volume knob and a full soundcard are not exactly comparable in development terms. A soundcard needs electronics, mechanics, firmware, drivers and user software (or an app). It is a major project especially for a company that does not have off the shelf "parts" to pull from like RME or MOTU would. Additionally one has to consider ongoing maintenance of firmware, drivers and software so the costs continue forever. It is NOT a trivial thing so there is likely to be no return on investment.

Just go and find a soundcard that has AES3 outputs and your problem is solved. For a cheaper solution get one with S/P-DIF outputs and make an adapter cable - for a short cable run this will work perfectly well. Some computers even have S/P-DIF outputs as standard so then a separate soundcard is not needed, i.e. what you want is actually free. Genelec cannot compete with that!

 

[majingotan]

Can you give a couple webpage examples of affordable examples that would work with my MacBook Pro (USB C) and terminate in a AES output. Honestly, I've never seen one.

A matrix USB to AES converter is all you needed

 

[hege]

Same reason they made a Volume Controller

Just to clarify, these Volume Controllers control the GLM digital internal volume (or rather, GLM network controls the speaker DSP internal volumes). They are not analog volume pots usable for anything else. As such, comparison to generic "USB-SPDIF" adapters is completely irrelevant, as said there are million on the market.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_9310am.htm
https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_9101am.htm

(but yes, they do also have some basic analog pots for the cheap analog only speakers: Z9000 - it's no effort to sell these compared to a usb bridge)

 

[bunnyfuzz]

Why would Genelec bother to make a USB-AES3 device when there are hundreds on the market already? They are called soundcards. Some are quite affordable too.

For the same reason they made digitally active speakers (Many on the market already)

For the same reason they made GLM Software and GLM Kit (Many room correction solutions on the market already)

For the benefit of their customers. An elegant, affordable and easy solution.

 

[bunnyfuzz]

Kii makes the Kii Control to deliver a direct digital signal to their digitally active speakers even though the market already supplies hundreds of other sound cards and adapters, or you could just use analog input. My opinion is that Genelec is lacking concerning this ease of implementation for a direct digital hookup and control of their digitally active monitors. Ease, confidence and elegance of implementation is missing from Genelec's current solution.

 

[Hephaestus]

Kii makes the Kii Control to deliver a direct digital signal to their digitally active speakers even though the market already supplies hundreds of other sound cards and adapters, or you could just use analog input. My opinion is that Genelec is lacking concerning this ease of implementation for a direct digital hookup and control of their digitally active monitors. Ease, confidence and elegance of implementation is missing from Genelec's current solution.

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Genelec sells maybe over 90% of its products for pro use. Studios have interfaces with AES/EBU connections....
But I get your point - they might get more consumer clients with home user friendly solution. Time tells.

 

[FrantzM]

With a speaker system, the first operation is to control volume: decrease or increase the volume .. followed perhaps by changing the source... Implementing a volume control is trivial ... On one side you are able to perform all these wonderful calculations to linearize the output (make no mistakes, acoustics is a maths-heavy science) , yet it remains a mystery and arcane thing to lower the sound level ...

It is to me difficult to comprehend how neglected is the user interface in most products. Be they professional or consumer. This is not endemic to audio. It is everywhere. From cars that most humans may not be able to start let alone , move without reading copious and arcane manuals to smartphones or even simple items like fridge.. For exemple there is a stick to put the Prius to gear .. you move it to reverse or to drive ... You need to press a separate, different button to put in "Park" ... What genius thought of such a complicated way to put your car in "Park" ?
, It is quite paradoxical that our appliances have more features, more intelligence, yet have become more difficult to operate... even at the simplest level...

As for this particular stellar product...
A bit of context. Last I looked, a pair of 8341 plus a pair of their column W 701 (?) subwoofer woofer is a >$20,000 combo .. JBL M2 territory .. On paper the FR of the M2 is as good as what we see on this Genelec ... If one has the room and the need for more volume and frequency extension .. I'd say M2...

 

[Hephaestus]

With a speaker system, the first operation is to control volume: decrease or increase the volume .. followed perhaps by changing the source... Implementing a volume control is trivial ... On one side you are able to perform all these wonderful calculations to linearize the output (make no mistakes, acoustics is a maths-heavy science) , yet it remains a mystery and arcane thing to lower the sound level ...

It is to me difficult to comprehend how neglected is the user interface in most products. Be they professional or consumer. This is not endemic to audio. It is everywhere. From cars that most humans may not be able to start let alone , move without reading copious and arcane manuals to smartphones or even simple items like fridge.. For exemple there is a stick to put the Prius to gear .. you move it to reverse or to drive ... You need to press a separate, different button to put in "Park" ... What genius thought of such a complicated way to put your car in "Park" ?
, It is quite paradoxical that our appliances have more features, more intelligence, yet have become more difficult to operate... even at the simplest level...

As for this particular stellar product...
A bit of context. Last I looked, a pair of 8341 plus a pair of their column W 701 (?) subwoofer woofer is a >$20,000 combo .. JBL M2 territory .. On paper the FR of the M2 is as good as what we see on this Genelec ... If one has the room and the need for more volume and frequency extension .. I'd say M2...

Try to use M2 in ultra-nearfield.
Both products have been designed for completely different use.

 

[bunnyfuzz]

Genelec sells maybe over 90% of its products for pro use. Studios have interfaces with AES/EBU connections....
But I get your point - they might get more consumer clients with home user friendly solution. Time tells.

I'm on my 3rd set of Genelec speakers. I like them very much. Right now they're the only brand I'll seriously consider buying, though I have fun looking at the offerings of other companies. I'm a home listener, not a Pro.

I don't know the actual facts, but I think your 90% is way too high. I think many non-pros like myself buy Genelec speakers. The very large and expensive gear may have a higher percentage pro following, but the regular stuff seems very consumer friendly. Class D amps for lightness and efficiency. Auto ON/OFF, I can't imagine a studio specifically requesting that. The durable build of the 8xxx Series is perfect for homes with probing little fingers. The ease of placement and implementation of the smaller speakers. And NO sharp corners to injure or dent.

I love to read about and consider their digitally active offerings, but their melding of computer/digital with their digitally active speakers is spooky sometimes. GLM isn't even currently working with OS Catalina. Who knows if it will work with the next OSX. Genelec make a digitally active speaker that has built in capability for room correction so they make a GLM box to implement that function, but that same speaker has no Genelec solution to seamlessly hook up audio digitally to my computer even though it does that with GLM for room correction. Their business is digital audio hardware.

In 1992 I had Meridian D600 digitally active speakers and its primary inputs were digital. Volume control was through a Meridian remote. No computers involved. It's now 2020, shouldn't a digitally active speaker be used almost exclusively with digital inputs with an elegant and safe way to control the volume. I would wager that most owners of the 83xx speakers use the analog inputs, because using the digital input is a pain, too many / confusing adapters, or too expensive to implement. Especially for the consumer grade users; and I think they already have a large amount of them.