grills on or off

[muad]

It's not as scary as it looks. Those bumps and dips are reflections off of the grill frames. If you measure at various angles off axis, those deviations will shift in frequency and tend to cancel each other out. Although I'm sure it's possible to engineer a grill that actually degrades the overall response, most grills will have little or no effect. Or at least I couldn't hear any difference when I had a friend attach and reattach the magnetic grills on my BMR while I was blind folded. This is also Floyd Toole's opinion on the audible effects of grills.

It's interesting that the few articles I found about grills, the measurements are performed in the near field. What would be interesting, is if the test were performed at the listening positions, and possibly even compared with a moving mic measurement. I think it would be a much more realistic picture on the audibility of grills.

 

[Midwest Blade]

Listening "grills off" for both of my bookshelf sets, there seems to be just a bit of difference in the higher frequency but I have never measured to verify, plus I like the grill off look when listening. Grills are always on any other time.

My main set of speaker have no option, Quad ESL's.

 

[levimax]

It's not as scary as it looks. Those bumps and dips are reflections off of the grill frames. If you measure at various angles off axis, those deviations will shift in frequency and tend to cancel each other out. Although I'm sure it's possible to engineer a grill that actually degrades the overall response, most grills will have little or no effect. Or at least I couldn't hear any difference when I had a friend attach and reattach the magnetic grills on my BMR while I was blind folded. This is also Floyd Toole's opinion on the audible effects of grills.

I have tried to ABX with and without grills but I don't have a good system and after seeing the graph I have a strong expectation bias. I don't doubt the graph over states the issue but in the measurement review copy Martin Colloms says "The effect of the grille, however, was pretty dramatic (fig.4) -okay up to 2kHz but a disaster above that frequency, deepening the crossover trough by a further 4 dB and imparting ±3 dB irregularities for the frequency range beyond. In addition, the fine-knit fabric gives an attenuation of around 1.2 dB, in addition to causing minor reflections between it and the treble unit. It's just as well this speaker looks nicely finished without the grille."

Since the speakers look good without grills I will take the extra 1.2 dB efficiency and what has to be a smoother response "for free".

 

[daftcombo]

My Genelec 8030s have very sturdy metal grilles that cannot be removed. I like this approach: it makes the speaker virtually indestructible (liquids being perhaps the only exception), and it completely sidesteps the question of the impact of the grille on sound quality, since there's no doubt you're using the speaker the way it was measured.

Off-topic: do your Genelec hiss?


To come back on the topic: Aria 906 grills on 95% of time, off for "critical listening".

 

[edechamps]

Off-topic: do your Genelec hiss?

No. My particular 8030s are fairly old models (8030A) though; I believe the newer models have different amps.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

It's interesting that the few articles I found about grills, the measurements are performed in the near field. What would be interesting, is if the test were performed at the listening positions, and possibly even compared with a moving mic measurement. I think it would be a much more realistic picture on the audibility of grills.

I have plots of the BMR on and off axis with the grills on, although not far field. I'll see if I can find those.

 

[MZKM]

It's not as scary as it looks. Those bumps and dips are reflections off of the grill frames. If you measure at various angles off axis, those deviations will shift in frequency and tend to cancel each other out. Although I'm sure it's possible to engineer a grill that actually degrades the overall response, most grills will have little or no effect. Or at least I couldn't hear any difference when I had a friend attach and reattach the magnetic grills on my BMR while I was blind folded. This is also Floyd Toole's opinion on the audible effects of grills.

This is a good experiment for @amirm to run when he has time.

 

[xykreinov]

Well, just about the only good thing about my Klipsch R-41MP is the look of the orange, brushed-metallic cone and the needle-nosed, silver colored tweeter.
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So, until I can fetch an AAM, my wallet is happier if I leave the covers off.

 

[mansr]

My tweeters have a non-removable metal mesh (B&W CM6 S2), but I have the main grille off because I prefer that look. The downward-firing sub doesn't have a grille option.

 

[Willem]

My Harbeths were designed for use with grilles on.

 

[Tks]

Just keep them on. Family thinks' I'm a nut for buying speakers in the living room (the type of folks to think because speakers come built-in to televisions, they must've put them there for a reason, and anyone buying speakers for that reason, are just being scammed). The sorts of people who are extremely utilitarian in all aspects outside of their own interests, but when their interests or hobbies are concerned, they're the complete opposite and will splurge like lunatics.

 

[xykreinov]

Just keep them on. Family thinks' I'm a nut for buying speakers in the living room (the type of folks to think because speakers come built-in to televisions, they must've put them there for a reason, and anyone buying speakers for that reason, are just being scammed). The sorts of people who are extremely utilitarian in all aspects outside of their own interests, but when their interests or hobbies are concerned, they're the complete opposite and will splurge like lunatics.

Can relate to that. It's trivial until it concerns their interests.

 

[mansr]

Family thinks' I'm a nut for buying speakers in the living room (the type of folks to think because speakers come built-in to televisions, they must've put them there for a reason, and anyone buying speakers for that reason, are just being scammed).

I removed the speakers from my TV to give it better ventilation.

The sorts of people who are extremely utilitarian in all aspects outside of their own interests, but when their interests or hobbies are concerned, they're the complete opposite and will splurge like lunatics.

How are we any different?

 

[hmt]

Neumann KH420 for my homecinema system and Elac DBR62 for my Desktop: both grill on. The Neumanns grill were a ripoff tobuy but I am really picky and want to protect their drivers.

 

[levimax]

It's not as scary as it looks. Those bumps and dips are reflections off of the grill frames. If you measure at various angles off axis, those deviations will shift in frequency and tend to cancel each other out. Although I'm sure it's possible to engineer a grill that actually degrades the overall response, most grills will have little or no effect. Or at least I couldn't hear any difference when I had a friend attach and reattach the magnetic grills on my BMR while I was blind folded. This is also Floyd Toole's opinion on the audible effects of grills.

OK so I measured at LP with grills on and off using MMM RTA with REW. While there is a slight difference and a slight reduction in volume it is no where near what Stereophile was showing.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

Maybe you can lobby @amirm to test grills on/off spinorama for one of the speaker tests.

 

[Certainkindoffool]

On for protection from our 3 year old.

I bought used speakers in the past that had been fully wrapped in mesh screening and a cotton cover. It made a remarkable difference taking all that crap off.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

Off-topic: do your Genelec hiss?


To come back on the topic: Aria 906 grills on 95% of time, off for "critical listening".

The 8030C hiss is noticeably louder than my 8341A. The claim 5dB of self generated noise.

 

[ernestcarl]

Pretty much no choice with the KH120 so with grills. The same with the Sceptre S8 so no grill — just a little concerned with how much the horn wave guide juts out. It’s so easy to “grab” and pull — by young children mostly.

 

[muad]

OK so I measured at LP with grills on and off using MMM RTA with REW. While there is a slight difference and a slight reduction in volume it is no where near what Stereophile was showing.

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Thanks for doing this! This makes sense. It lines up with the same theories regarding edge diffraction and overall sound power. However I'm sure that badly designed grills would have a terrible effect on the overall response.