JBL 4367 Review (was M2 'review')

[TBone]

cool thanks! i tracked one down in holland.

we can go back to talking about wrongly named ugly studio monitors now..

that may require another communication breakdown ...

 

[Thomas savage]

that may require another communication breakdown ...

well if it does it will be 'nobody's fault but mine'

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

A lot of closet audiophiles around here. Except Tim of course. If he won a $25000 system of the highest caliber, hooked it up in his listening room, and noticed any improvement what so ever over what he currently owns, he would force his self to subconsciously block it from being real without being shown hard data. Kind of like if a UFO filled with little green aliens came down from the sky and invaded a church claiming they created everyone. The fact that a UFO filled with little green aliens came down from the sky definitely wouldn't be enough proof.

As silly as the rest of your arguments, Mike. I'm well aware of the fact that my system is not SOTA, not even within its limitations (Small speakers, pretty ineffective below about 60 cycles), and I'm actually looking to upgrade sometime in the next year or so. In the meantime, I guess I'll wait for you to put some meat on the bones of your theories, and watch you answer the hard questions as if a completely different question was asked. It would be good entertainment, but in an election year we're already getting enough of that sort of thing.

Tim

 

[Thomas savage]

As silly as the rest of your arguments, Mike. I'm well aware of the fact that my system is not SOTA, not even within its limitations (Small speakers, pretty ineffective below about 60 cycles), and I'm actually looking to upgrade sometime in the next year or so. In the meantime, I guess I'll wait for you to put some meat on the bones of your theories, and watch you answer the hard questions as if a completely different question was asked. It would be good entertainment, but in an election year we're already getting enough of that sort of thing.

Tim

that and naked first ladies to look forward too...

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

that and naked first ladies to look forward too...

Yes. On the other subject, I have the Barry Diamet LZs. They're so quiet by todays standards that they sound wrong....until you turn them up. It kind of helps you understand why people think loud sounds good. But over the long haul, they're more pleasant to listen to.

Tim

 

[TBone]

Yes. On the other subject, I have the Barry Diamet LZs. They're so quiet by todays standards that they sound wrong....until you turn them up. It kind of helps you understand why people think loud sounds good. But over the long haul, they're more pleasant to listen to.

Tim

http://www.turnmeup.org/

 

[NorthSky]

No.
My Dr. and I look at an MRI, we see 2 different things. Seeing measurements and understanding what they mean are 2 different things.


No.
Unless pathological, the system prior to the terminals should play no role in what one hears, which are soundwaves, transduced by the speakers. Now yes, different rooms will affect that perception, but when the speakers are designed like Harman does, above around 400-500hz or so, binaural hearing systems tend to hear through the room, again, unless pathological. There should be a great deal of consistency in sound >500hz, room to room. Unfortunately, below 500hz, this is not the case. So indeed, as you say there will be differences that are far less predictable.
However, a tightly controlled directivity speaker like this has an excellent chance of sounding good in most rooms.

cheers,

AJ

Last time I was inside a MRI machine I was listening to The Beatles.
And when later on looking @ the results with an expert specialized doctor; it confirmed what my body knew already...perfect common accord between I and the pro doctor. The machine did not lie. And neither our interpretation. I calculated the level of accuracy between 97 and 99.77%. ...One in one million.

* The specific measurements I was referring to (in my mind) were from the JBL M2 loudspeaker.

I am not a scientific expert on loudspeaker's mechanics and measurement's interpretation in connection to all other factors of consideration, including real life listening sessions. I am shooting my own ideas, theories which are always scientifically debatable, objectionable and subversively entanglement unregulated.
...In simple meaning words; never abso!ute.

 

[amirm]

No.
My Dr. and I look at an MRI, we see 2 different things. Seeing measurements and understanding what they mean are 2 different things.

Please explain what this means in the context of the speakers mentioned.

Unless pathological, the system prior to the terminals should play no role in what one hears, which are soundwaves, transduced by the speakers. Now yes, different rooms will affect that perception, but when the speakers are designed like Harman does, above around 400-500hz or so, binaural hearing systems tend to hear through the room, again, unless pathological. There should be a great deal of consistency in sound >500hz, room to room. Unfortunately, below 500hz, this is not the case. So indeed, as you say there will be differences that are far less predictable.

M2 speakers are sold as a system including calibration and EQ (ARCOS) courtesy of outboard supplied DSP. The 8-mic measurement system/calibration will sharply reduce impact of room modes.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Last time I was inside a MRI machine I was listening to The Beatles.
And when later on looking @ the results with an expert specialized doctor; it confirmed what my body knew already...perfect common accord between I and the pro doctor. The machine did not lie. And neither our interpretation. I calculated the level of accuracy between 97 and 99.77%. ...One in one million.

* The specific measurements I was referring to (in my mind) were from the JBL M2 loudspeaker.

I am not a scientific expert on loudspeaker's mechanics and measurement's interpretation in connection to all other factors of consideration, including real life listening sessions. I am shooting my own ideas, theories which are always scientifically debatable, objectionable and subversively entanglement unregulated.
...In simple meaning words; never abso!ute.

Actually that is only about one in some 434 match. Sorry to be the pedant, I guess bad habits are rubbing off on me. And done all in good fun. I get your point.

Now the big issue. If the Beatles were being played over M2's during the MRI would they have effected the result?

 

[TBone]

Now the big issue. If the Beatles were being played over M2's during the MRI would they have effected the result?

yes, eight days a week ...

 

[fas42]

Yes. On the other subject, I have the Barry Diamet LZs. They're so quiet by todays standards that they sound wrong....until you turn them up. It kind of helps you understand why people think loud sounds good. But over the long haul, they're more pleasant to listen to.

Tim

At the moment I'm running at fixed volume - the attenuator has been bypassed. Which makes it interesting to hear how recordings come across, vis-a-vis each other. My LZs still "work" at this nominally low volume, probably equivalent to 1W, overall average, to the speakers - by comparison, a recent Canned Heat effort has been "intelligently" squeezed into the top of the dynamic range, has lots of "wallop" and sheer SPL - subjectively much louder, but still doesn't sound processed to get this "intensity".

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

if you open your eyes and look round the back of this guy's system, most of you would dismiss this guy as a audiophile nut job without having to read the 'review'.. but its ok this time because he likes the crap looking pro studio JBL's that are suitably 'anti hifi' .

keith should be ashamed of himself how desperate are you to get promotion for these JBL that you post a review by a bloke that is the polar opposite of everything you believe in within the sphere of hi fi.

the bloke has no credibility by all of your own definitions so why are any of you even reading this review?

Actually, they'e very pro-hifi. Anti "high-end," perhaps. Maybe it's because I started out, many years ago, with Altec Lansing Valencias, but I don't find them all that unattractive. They're easier for me to look at than a lot of high-end speakers. Some of which look like robots from the first run of Battlestar Gallactica...

 

[AJ Soundfield]

The real slim shady, the M2s. Should be close enough to 4367 for government work. If someone has data for the 4367, better yet.

A wider dispersion controlled directivity design, the Revel Salon2

Notice with the Salon, the wide dispersion creates a gentle downward slope from low>high frequency in room (bottom measurement). The larger woofer/horn combo of the M2/4367 will make it more directional. In the same room it will exhibit a slightly more tilted down slope from low>high frequency. The on axis or onset/direct response of both are "flat", but the total sound at the listening position will contain more upper frequency energy for the Salon. An overlay of each FR at the LP would highlight this nicely. That would be the "missing resolution" described here by audiophiles used to wide dispersion small cone/dome affairs. Not the hilarious nonsense about magic XOs and "hearing" steel, etc.
It might take some acclimation to get use to this. From a spatial rendering perspective, the M2/4367 should have a bit tighter, more palpable "in the room" type presentation, albeit with a bit less spaciousness, due to the tighter lateral dispersion/less lateral reflected energy in the reverberate at the LP.

cheers

AJ

 

[AJ Soundfield]

Please explain what this means in the context of the speakers mentioned.

The Genelecs are CD like the Harman products, the ATC and Magicos (V3 shown below) are typical uncontrolled directivity speakers and will/do measure worse:

M2 speakers are sold as a system including calibration and EQ (ARCOS) courtesy of outboard supplied DSP. The 8-mic measurement system/calibration will sharply reduce impact of room modes.

So let's see how it deals with Ethans dreaded "ringing" in the 100-500Hz range, where thresholds are not so high.
How would the ARCOS reduce excess full bandwidth sound power <500hz into the reverberate without affecting the onset response?
They are still boxes.

cheers,

AJ

 

[Purité Audio]

The Genelecs are CD like the Harman products, the ATC and Magicos (V3 shown below) are typical uncontrolled directivity speakers and will/do measure worse:

So let's see how it deals with Ethans dreaded "ringing" in the 100-500Hz range, where thresholds are not so high.
How would the ARCOS reduce excess full bandwidth sound power <500hz into the reverberate without affecting the onset response?
They are still boxes.

cheers,

AJ

AJ those two posts win my 'posts of the month ' award for March, really interesting.You prefer the controlled dispersion approach ?
What exactly affects spatial rendering, horns do tend to 'fill the room ' with sound why exactly is that.
Sorryin advance for naive questions.
Keith.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

.You prefer the controlled dispersion approach ?

Yes, top to bottom. Tightly controlled like the M2/4367...but with the gentle downward tilt of the "high resolution" Salon et al. Cake. Eat.
Don't create excess sound energy and then turn it into heat via absorption, it's wasteful. Plus I'd rather the room not look like an isolation ward, to "fix" things, but I'm no audiophile, so YMMV.

What exactly affects spatial rendering, horns do tend to 'fill the room ' with sound why exactly is that.

Everything.
Stereo is an artificial construct. On axis/onset matters, as does off axis/reflections, contributing to ASW/spaciousness etc. Interchannel L-R matching matters. There is a lot of lobing interference between the L-R creating those phantom center images, so not only directivity, but room reflectivity matters. Have a look here.
Keep in mind preferences matter. Some folks like a bit more diffuse/spacious sound, others a bit more palpable/immediate type sound. No right/wrong. I like both.

cheers,

AJ

 

[RayDunzl]

If someone has data for the 4367, better yet.

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/tl_files/catalog//jblsynthesis/4367/JBL Synthesis 4367 White Paper.pdf

 

[AJ Soundfield]

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/tl_files/catalog//jblsynthesis/4367/JBL Synthesis 4367 White Paper.pdf

That is interesting. They use the same woofer (though the 4367 is a -1 version, perhaps an overall revision). It explains some things in the M2 measurements I couldn't reconcile, thanks.

 

[TBone]

Okay, finally tracked down the number from another post from years ago: 240 031

Edit: from https://www.discogs.com/Led-Zeppelin-Led-Zeppelin/master/4126 - this is the exact version that I have:

Led Zeppelin ‎(CD, Album, RE) Atlantic 240 031 Germany 1986

BD Catalog, w/sku# embedded ...
https://www.discogs.com/lists/Barry-Diament-Masterings/274967

 

[Thomas savage]

Actually, they'e very pro-hifi. Anti "high-end," perhaps. Maybe it's because I started out, many years ago, with Altec Lansing Valencias, but I don't find them all that unattractive. They're easier for me to look at than a lot of high-end speakers. Some of which look like robots from the first run of Battlestar Gallactica...

agreed