KEF LS60 Wireless Just Announced

[Pearljam5000]

Thank you! I've been trying to get this point across a few times. I'm not going to work, I'm going to listen to the music and relax.
I doubt that a studio professional can afford to doze off or let his brain go to an alpha state like I do when listening. LOL

Maybe, but (good) studio monitors are still the benchmark for accuracy

 

[bo_knows]

Maybe, but (good) studio monitors are still the benchmark for accuracy

I don't disagree. I think my KEF ref 3 is accurate enough for what I need.
Again, when I close my eyes for more than 20 minutes, my brain goes to an alpha state where I no longer can or try to do any analytical/critical listening.

 

[pseudoid]

I don't think I'll ever own a surround system. I like a stage in front of me.

My AVpre/Pro is (I dunno) like 9 channels and PowerAmp is 5 channels.
I only use 2 channels, I tried a center but didn't work.
How else do you switch HDMI (audio + video) from 4+ different sources, without being forced to go 'surround'?
Never say 'n/ever'!

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I have been told (by KEF) that max SPL is 114dB, I've seen some others mention that it is 111dB. Ofcourse this is not for the lowest bass (26Hz).
All I know is that these loudspeakers go crazy loud for such a small speaker. (not speculation, I heard them)

You cannot cross the LS50 at 390 Hz like Kef does in the LS60 so your distortion will probably be a lot higher between 390 and 140 Hz. Also the design with the 4 woofers on the side and the uni-q driver in the middle in the front is done to create a point source for the whole sound spectrum.
That is also not possible to accomplish with 2 separate subwoofers crossed at 140Hz.

"the design with the 4 woofers on the side and the uni-q driver in the middle in the front is done to create a point source for the whole sound spectrum."

I hardly think that's possible. A true "point source" in the bass requires a cardioid dispersion pattern. The Kef like every other non-cardioid design will have its bass become omnidirectional at around 200 hz. So the fact that the woofers are situated on the side of the cabinet equi-distant from the Uni-Q, is of little more than marketing significance.

In fact, I think, the most disappointing aspect of the entire design, is the failure to create a cardioid design. Most of the woofers are already there, perhaps only a couple more on the back of the cabinet with the right DSP would have accomplished this--and all for less than both the D&D and the Kii. So, a missed opportunity there, I think.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

If the 4'' UNIQ can play loud and clean as the 5'' uniq, thats really good..., because you can pair up this tower with subwoofers and not even deal with ports..

I don't disagree. I think my KEF ref 3 is accurate enough for what I need.
Again, when I close my eyes for more than 20 minutes, my brain goes to an alpha state where I no longer can or try to do any analytical/critical listening.

I really like how the ref3 sounds, i wish to have in the future the UMIK 1 to do some filters in order to make my r7 more simlar to the ref3 hehe

 

[Sancus]

Puzzled ? How is there a problem using these in surround system? They have RCA inputs nothing easier.
Also I don’t know about you but I prefer to deal with thin speaker cables going to my AVR than with getting power sockets installed for each speaker individually, not to mention the price difference.

Did you actually read my post? You haven't said anything I didn't already say, lol. There is no problem if you use direct inputs. But a major selling point is that these speakers are wireless. And yes, people do want wireless surrounds and subs at a minimum. You may not understand it, but the reality is there is huge demand for that convenience feature.

Outlets are not an issue in any remotely modern home or apartment. My living room is from 2000, is pretty small, but it still has 4 outlets. It is *always* less cable to go to the nearest outlet than to the AVR, except for the center. And it's easier to hide. I know. I would have significantly less cabling mess if I didn't have >35 feet of cable to go from the AVR to my left surround/left height.

Why? A studio is not a living room.

If Hi-Fi speakers were all wrong and "professional studio monitors" were all right few people would still by Hi-Fi speakers. It's a different class of devices.

They're not, though. There is no consistent functional or sound quality difference between Hi-Fi speakers and studio monitors. They're really just different products with a ton of overlap.

There are plenty of people using studio monitors in the home(hi). The sound is very similar to what you will get from many well-designed Hi-Fi speakers. There are also plenty of studios using Hi-Fi speakers to mix and master music. B&W is very commonly used in some of the biggest studios in the world(sadly IMO, since B&Ws suck, but that's another story). Many, perhaps the majority, of BluRay soundtracks are mastered using a particular model of Revel in-ceiling speaker for the heights.

This would be genuinely spectacular IMO. But I'm almost certain it would never happen.

I visited KEF and they basically have a division dedicated to HT. I think was told with some amount of pride that they're one of the only official approved Dolby Atmos speaker manufacturers (I think?).

I really doubt that they would have WISA certified the LS50 Wireless II if they weren't planning to do something involving them for HT. Using WISA for stereo only is really not that popular or common.

 

[ethanchiu10]

Thank you! I've been trying to get this point across a few times. I'm not going to work, I'm going to listen to the music and relax.
I doubt that a studio professional can afford to doze off or let his brain go to an alpha state like I do when listening. LOL

But thats like saying you can't relax at a golf course by using professional golf clubs. Using pro equipment does not take away from the enjoyment of music. Lets not be silly here. I would bet most music professionals very much enjoy "working" on their music and may very well feel "relaxed" while working on their music too, all while using their "pro studio monitor"....

 

[bo_knows]

But thats like saying you can't relax at a golf course by using professional golf clubs. Using pro equipment does not take away from the enjoyment of music. Lets not be silly here. I would bet most music professionals very much enjoy "working" on their music and may very well feel "relaxed" while working on their music too, all while using their "pro studio monitor"...

Cool, go get yourself a pro monitor and enjoy the music. I have nothing against it. What sometimes sets me off, is that KEF commercial hi-fi speakers are compared and judged against professional monitors which have different objectives and options. Oh, and yes, it's your choice or anyone for that matter to mix work and pleasure. I rather not.

 

[Tangband]

Are they good enough for use as professional studio monitors? I guess that's the real test

Genelec and Neumann is showing very reliable, real data about frequency response and max SPL .
Im not sure about this with ls60, and the reason is that I have never seen a ”hifi-loudspeaker” sold in a hifi-store that holds up thruthfully to its technical spec. A big part of the hifi-market is so full of bullshit and lies and have been so since the eighties. At least Kef has a white paper about this speaker and thats a good starting point.

I would love being wrong on this, of course. When the reviews with real measurements come in, we will see.

https://www.biline.ca/audio_critic/mags/The_Audio_Critic_26_r.pdf

 

[Newman]

I just found this thread. 48 PAGES OF COMMENTS FROM MAY 5 TO MAY 18 IS INSANE! LOL

Please continue.

 

[Music1969]

I doubt its the same with ls60, and the reason is that I have never seen a ”hifi-loudspeaker” sold in a hifi-store that holds up thruthfully to its technical spec. The whole hifi-market is so full of bullshit and lies and have been so since the eighties.

Have you seen KEF R3 and LS50W2 measurements?

KEF engineering chops at the moment (led by @jackocleebrown ) are no joke...

 

[Newman]

Are they the same as the LS60?

Did KEF publish R3 measurements that were the same as independent measurements?

 

[Music1969]

Did KEF publish R3 measurements that were the same as independent measurements?

Two things. Also for @Tangband

1. Just because one is not aware, doesn't mean the info doesn't exist. Go search for KEF's whitepaper on R-series.

2. The 3rd party measurements are what they are, regardless of whether manufacturer published anything or not

And hint from KEF's whitepaper:

 

[ethanchiu10]

Cool, go get yourself a pro monitor and enjoy the music. I have nothing against it. What sometimes sets me off, is that KEF commercial hi-fi speakers are compared and judged against professional monitors which have different objectives and options. Oh, and yes, it's your choice or anyone for that matter to mix work and pleasure. I rather not.

If we were talking about something else other than music, maybe I can agree with you. But you can't seriously think the people that create the music that you enjoy do not enjoy it themselves. There is no separating work and pleasure when it comes to (enjoyable) music.

Like do you really think David Guetta is in his studio being bored to death by his Genelecs and having to push himself to get through the hours of his day creating his beats?

 

[Tangband]

If we were talking about something else other than music, maybe I can agree with you. But you can't seriously think the people that create the music that you enjoy do not enjoy it themselves. There is no separating work and pleasure when it comes to (enjoyable) music.

Like do you really think David Guetta is in his studio being bored to death by his Genelecs and having to push himself to get through the hours of his day creating his beats?

An analogy - if you are working as a film producer - would you like your monitor-colour to be correct, or tinted in green or red ?

The same goes for music production.

There should not be any difference between listening/producing music or listening at home as a hifi enthusiast.

 

[thewas]

A true "point source" in the bass requires a cardioid dispersion pattern.

Why? An ideal point source is rather omnidirectional in the whole spectrum.

In fact, I think, the most disappointing aspect of the entire design, is the failure to create a cardioid design. Most of the woofers are already there, perhaps only a couple more on the back of the cabinet with the right DSP would have accomplished this--and all for less than both the D&D and the Kii. So, a missed opportunity there, I think.

I am sure that was considered by KEF and the main reason of not using for example the rear pair of woofers to create the cardioid pattern is the loss in SPL (and thus also distortion) which you have in that case. A low SPL level cardioid mode though would be a nice add on I agree.

 

[tuga]

Why? An ideal point source is rather omnidirectional in the whole spectrum.

Or constant directivity to as low as physically possible? Opinions divide.

 

[harkpabst]

Or constant directivity to as low as physically possible?

That might be one ideal goal but an ideal point source cannot deliver that.

 

[tuga]

That might be one ideal goal but an ideal point source cannot deliver that.

The ideal point-source would be a full range driver and we all know such a topology has too many issues.
The next best thing is a point-source covering the midrange and the treble. Maybe you can get that with an omni-speaker, but it would not be adequate for small rooms or agree with everyone's preference.
I for one am happy that we have access to different topologies which produce distinct radiation patterns.

 

[harkpabst]

As long as you are not questioning the fact that an ideal point source is (or rather would be since it doesn't exist) omnidirectional throughout the entire audio range that's all fine with me.